Was the Saints' Front Office (e.g., Loomis) Fleeced on the Sean Payton Trade? (2 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Then you move to make sure legally he's obligated to work out the last 2 years of his deal and sit on it until you get what you want.

For players I know that if a player with 3 years left on his deal retires and 2 years later unretires he owes the team that held his contract 3 years. Not sure why that wasn't the case with xCSP

This would be stupid because then Payton would just stay retired. He didn't have to do anything.

Regardless, what's done is done. We need to focus on the way forward. The Paytpn deal is water under the bridge. I don't get why you're obsessing with this.

 

[BarBar]

Brady didn't turn it down. It was a done deal. It only fell through because Brees changed his mind on retiring after he found out about Brady coming here.

I thought this was common knowledge by now.

Just quoted you to make sure everyone sees it.

This is what happened. Can't blame Brees. I would want Brady breaking any of my records in a Saints uniform, either.

 

[26ISTHEMAN]

Yes we got fleeced, which is on par for Loomis.

 

[Kegger]

I think it was a fair trade. We only had a few years to trade Payton, and he didn't want to come back.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

This would be stupid because then Payton would just stay retired. He didn't have to do anything.

Regardless, what's done is done. We need to focus on the way forward. The Paytpn deal is water under the bridge. I don't get why you're obsessing with this.

Then he stays retired

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

As always here, I offer absolutely no inside information. My opinion is totally that--opinion, though I try to base it on circumstantial evidence, logic, personal experience, history and common sense.

If over the years every Saintsreport member sent the website a dollar every time I wrote that Sean Payton was the de facto general manager of the team, Saintsreport today would financially be in a better position than the Washington Post.

I would guess that Sean Payton was a challenge to deal with. But at the top of Mickey Loomis's accomplishments was his ability to work successfully with Payton. Were I the owner, Mickey Loomis would today not be the general manager of the Saints. I think he is currently a disaster as general manager. In fact, when Payton left, I would have pushed the organization in a totally different direction, and there would have been a new regime.

But when Payton was head coach, Loomis was almost the perfect general manager because for the relationship to work with Sean, we needed a general manager who did not have a huge ego, who was willing to defer to Payton on personnel matters, and who was skilled enough to execute what Payton wanted done. (We also needed a general manager who could occasionally rein in Payton and tell him no, which Loomis did not do enough. He should have pushed back more than he did, but with Payton the pushing back needs to be done carefully.)

My view is that Payton was hardly "forced out", and that the organization and especially the owner were willing to do whatever was reasonably possibly to keep Payton as coach. Payton left because he wanted out. A secondary reason may have been his new wife's distaste for living in New Orleans. But the main reason--in my opinion--is that Payton knew the team was one in decline, in large part because it did not have a successor to Brees.

As a matter of history, Lombardi stepping down as head coach of the Packers in 1967 is somewhat comparable. Yes, Lombardi was physically and emotionally tired--but not so much that after a year he quit as the Packers' general manager and readily became head coach and general manager of Washington. During his Green Bay years, Lombardi constantly flirted with other teams--Atlanta in 1965 and Notre Dame come to mind--in part because of money. And in my opinion, the main reason Lombardi stepped down in Green Bay was that he knew the Packers after the 1967 were a declining team. And then Green Bay promoted to head coach its defensive coordinator Phil Bengston, which was a disaster.

Simply stated, if the Saints had drafted Mahomes in 2017, Payton would have coached the Saints another 10 years.

And Loomis as general manager when Payton was coach, B plus, but as general manager without Payton, F.

 

[DaveXA]

Then he stays retired

And we get nothing. What's more valuable to us, him going to an AFC team and us getting a first round pick, or him staying retired?

Answer seems obvious to me.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

And we get nothing. What's more valuable to us, him going to an AFC team and us getting a first round pick, or him staying retired?

Answer seems obvious to me.

What did we get for him? Bresse?!?!? We would've done just as bad without him. A program changing HC is worth more than JAG on the D line. You try to bury his contract and hold him for ransom....get what he's worth or he stays retired.

Re revisionist history: This isn't revisionist history from me....this was always my stance. CSP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Bresse

 

[DaveXA]

What did we get for him? Bresse?!?!? We would've done just as bad without him. A program changing HC is worth more than JAG on the D line. You try to bury his contract and hold him for ransom....get what he's worth or he stays retired.

Re revisionist history: This isn't revisionist history from me....this was always my stance. CSP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Bresse

Lol, we're not comparing Payton directly with Breese now are we? Really?

You'd rather we get nothing than let Payton walk. I guess that's a choice, but it isn't one I'd make.

And I've stated more than a few times I would have rather Payton stayed. But he apparently had had enough. Now, the front office may have caused that, and if they did, I'd completely disagree with them doing it.

I'm reading a reputable poster stating that Payton was forced out. Not convinced that he was, but, if he was, whoever forced him out is the one who needs to go.

 

[bouxdag]

I’m too lazy to look at post histories, but I’m guessing there are quite a few who said Payton‘s success was because of Brees, or laughed when he interviewed Rex Ryan, or laughed when he hired Vance Joseph, or danced on his grave when he lost 70-20, but now want to turn around and act like he had some great trade value and they were believers the entire time.

It makes no sense to argue someone had crazy market value when you didn’t believe in them yourself.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Lol, we're not comparing Payton directly with Breese now are we? Really?

You'd rather we get nothing than let Payton walk. I guess that's a choice, but it isn't one I'd make.

And I've stated more than a few times I would have rather Payton stayed. But he apparently had had enough. Now, the front office may have caused that, and if they did, I'd completely disagree with them doing it.

I'm reading a reputable poster stating that Payton was forced out. Not convinced that he was, but, if he was, whoever forced him out is the one who needs to go.

It's all good we disagree...and yes I'd rather hold CSP hostage than release him to say we got a late first to draft JAG. Fact is we lost that trade....big time.

Wed be just as bad off with CSP working @ Fox.

 

[DaveXA]

It's all good we disagree...and yes I'd rather hold CSP hostage than release him to say we got a late first to draft JAG. Fact is we lost that trade....big time.

Wed be just as bad off with CSP working @ Fox.

Well then, I rest my case.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I remain skeptical--highly--of the story that Payton was forced out. I am not questioning the good faith of anyone on the forum who posted such a story (though I would like to read the post again).

I do not doubt that Payton was high-maintenance and that some remarked on his departure that in some ways life would be easier. But I suspect there has been some revisionist history over who broke up with whom. Every account in the weeks leading up to Payton's announcement indicated that ownership and management were doing everything possible to keep him on board. And can anyone be so incompetent to think it is good that Sean is leaving so that now that we can hire Dennis.

 

[BBarnes]

Are there really people that think we or any other organization in the NFL would have gotten multiple first round picks for Sean Payton? Just stop, there wasn't and isn't any organization that would have gotten multiple first round picks for Sean.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Are there really people that think we or any other organization in the NFL would have gotten multiple first round picks for Sean Payton? Just stop, there wasn't and isn't any organization that would have gotten multiple first round picks for Sean.

Ok...then he stays retired

You own it...you set the value, if they're willing to pay....great, if not oh well...I'll keep it.

But what you're not going to tell me is what you think it's worth then demand I give it to you at that low arse cost.