Was the Saints' Front Office (e.g., Loomis) Fleeced on the Sean Payton Trade? (1 Viewer)

[DaveXA]

kept telling yall that the Gruden compensation should have been the minimum……but yall wanted to flame me. SP is considered one of the greatest offensive masterminds that the game has ever seen and yall thought he was worth less than Gruden. Now look at where we are.

Sure, but it doesn't matter what we think he's worth if no one is willing to pay it. And no one was gonna pay what was paid for Gruden. If you think so, I've got some beachfront property in DC to sell you.

 

[SweetT]

Sure, but it doesn't matter what we think he's worth if no one is willing to pay it. And no one was gonna pay what was paid for Gruden. If you think so, I've got some beachfront property in DC to sell you.

You don’t know if someone wasn’t willing to ante up more. Fun fact: SP wanted the Chargers gig but they didn’t want to pay him what he was for in terms of money. So we had alerted teams of what we were seeking as a starting point before negotiations. I definitely could’ve seen them giving us more bc of how assembled their roster was. Also, there was an owner that was desperate enough and his name is David Tepper and yes, Charlotte was on the list as potential suitors. Only problem was he is in our division. His name popped up here today and all I hear is how he made dumb decisions yada yada……well……yada yada he Could’ve been the one possibly. So before you automatically disregard every owner as not willing to spend more, just remember that there ARE owners who are desperate like the Browns and the Deshaun Watson ordeal. With that being said, I’ll take some beachfront property in Charleston SC please. I love that place

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

kept telling yall that the Gruden compensation should have been the minimum……but yall wanted to flame me. SP is considered one of the greatest offensive masterminds that the game has ever seen and yall thought he was worth less than Gruden. Now look at where we are.

but hey...at least we got Bryan Bresse out of the deal

 

[DaveXA]

You don’t know if someone wasn’t willing to ante up more. Fun fact: SP wanted the Chargers gig but they didn’t want to pay him what he was for in terms of money. So we had alerted teams of what we were seeking as a starting point before negotiations. I definitely could’ve seen them giving us more bc of how assembled their roster was. Also, there was an owner that was desperate enough and his name is David Tepper and yes, Charlotte was on the list as potential suitors. Only problem was he is in our division. His name popped up here today and all I hear is how he made dumb decisions yada yada……well……yada yada he Could’ve been the one possibly. So before you automatically disregard every owner as not willing to spend more, just remember that there ARE owners who are desperate like the Browns and the Deshaun Watson ordeal. With that being said, I’ll take some beachfront property in Charleston SC please. I love that place

Maybe I don't know. I don't think anyone else does either. But the fact is, if other teams offered more, we either would have heard about it or the Saints would have taken the better offer. The safe assumption is that Loomis took the best legitimate offer. Other offers might not have been serious. I'm not exactly sure what else Loomis is supposed to do if no one else actually made a better offer.

Things change. Teams valuing coaches vs draft picks vs players change all the time. IIRC, few if any were expecting to get what was offered for Gruden. Teams just value their 1st round picks too much to part with them unless it's part of a huge package of picks or players. A coach isn't normally gonna pull a 1st, let alone 2.

I just think even if Loomie holds out for a bit more, I'm not so sure it makes any difference.

 

[BreesusSaves]

If you go back and listen to the interviews/podcast with Payton and Loomis, what both have said is pretty consistent. If you remember, Payton went on vacation after the 2021 season and no one heard from him. Didn't answer calls, text, etc. He needed time away to think about the decision. He resigns when he comes back because he was "burnt out." He even talked about everything that went into it, including the feeling there was a "black cloud" over the Saints regarding the league with Bounty Gate and the NFC Championship no-call.

The bigger question is did he want to come back to the Saints after the year out? There is info out there that he was open to it. He was open to coming back to the Saints, but Loomis felt Payton left and he was loyal to Dennis Allen after last season. That is the crazy part to me. If this is the case, sticking with Allen over Payton after last season was a horrible decision. Then it began a negotiation of what the trade was worth, which Payton was a part of. To me, the leverage was lost when they weren't open to taking him back and don't start with the loyalty issue. The Cubs just fired a coach because a better one became available. They had no reason to be loyal to Allen after last season.

Jeff Duncan said that Payton wanted to come back to the Saints, but the Saints said no.

Regardless of how any of feel about Jeff Duncan, the man makes his living reporting on the Saints and does have connections. I doubt he'd openly state something that flammable without having confidence in his source.

but hey...at least we got Bryan Bresse out of the deal

Just in time for the Saints best defensive coach to now be coaching for the dumb idiot red birds.

 

[DaveXA]

but hey...at least we got Bryan Bresse out of the deal

We sure did. Better than nothing, no?

 

[Mad Max2]

Jeff Duncan said that Payton wanted to come back to the Saints, but the Saints said no.

Regardless of how any of feel about Jeff Duncan, the man makes his living reporting on the Saints and does have connections. I doubt he'd openly state something that flammable without having confidence in his source.



Just in time for the Saints best defensive coach to now be coaching for the dumb idiot red birds.

I was sure there was even more than the Jeff Duncan reporting. Didn't Loomis talk about it when he was interviewed or a podcast guest? I could have sworn he mentioned the interest, but Dennis Allen was their coach.

 

[SweetT]

Maybe I don't know. I don't think anyone else does either. But the fact is, if other teams offered more, we either would have heard about it or the Saints would have taken the better offer. The safe assumption is that Loomis took the best legitimate offer. Other offers might not have been serious. I'm not exactly sure what else Loomis is supposed to do if no one else actually made a better offer.

Things change. Teams valuing coaches vs draft picks vs players change all the time. IIRC, few if any were expecting to get what was offered for Gruden. Teams just value their 1st round picks too much to part with them unless it's part of a huge package of picks or players. A coach isn't normally gonna pull a 1st, let alone 2.

I just think even if Loomie holds out for a bit more, I'm not so sure it makes any difference.

SP eventually came out and said that he was happy with going to Denver bc the owners are “players” when it comes to the power structure in the NFL. So, I’m assuming that left some desperate teams like Carolina out of it. I live in Charlotte and I know for sure Tepper wanted him badly.

 

[Summed7]

I remain skeptical--highly--

It's weird. For me, I am more inclined to believe conspiracy theories when high. Seems to push you in the opposite direction...more towards skepticism. Different strokes I guess.

 

[DaveXA]

SP eventually came out and said that he was happy with going to Denver bc the owners are “players” when it comes to the power structure in the NFL. So, I’m assuming that left some desperate teams like Carolina out of it. I live in Charlotte and I know for sure Tepper wanted him badly.

Well, that's partly why I qualified my response. If Tepper wanted him that badly, he's gonna have to pay a premium, meaning 2 firsts, for Sean to stay in the division. Going to the opposite conference made the decision a lot easier.

 

[Booker]

Sure, but it doesn't matter what we think he's worth if no one is willing to pay it. And no one was gonna pay what was paid for Gruden. If you think so, I've got some beachfront property in DC to sell you.

The Saints were never going to get what he was worth, but that doesn't mean they didn't get the best they could for him. It is what it is.

 

[El Caliente]

I believe that had we held Sean out of play until this offseason we would have been able to net 2 1sts. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Looking at these teams canning their coaches mid season leads me to believe that desperation for a winning coach would have been stronger among owners. They would have given the sun and the moon for Sean. Instead we traded him away, for a modest haul (but not the king’s ransom that we expected).

 

[DaveXA]

The Saints were never going to get what he was worth, but that doesn't mean they didn't get the best they could for him. It is what it is.

Well, no one knows what the hypothetical best deal would have been. I haven't heard a legitimate offer that was supposedly better.

 

[DaveXA]

I believe that had we held Sean out of play until this offseason we would have been able to net 2 1sts. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Looking at these teams canning their coaches mid season leads me to believe that desperation for a winning coach would have been stronger among owners. They would have given the sun and the moon for Sean. Instead we traded him away, for a modest haul (but not the king’s ransom that we expected).

Time was on Payton's side. People thinking the Saints had all this leverage aren't thinking this through. If push comes to shove and the Saints sticks to their guns, Payton simply waits another year by which time his contract would have been up and no way to get compensated. The leverage the longer you hold Payton goes down, not up because teams would just decide they can wait one more season and they can bid on his services without dealing with the Saints.

There's some debate whether Patyon's contract tolled after he stepped down. I think the clock would have run. That said, the Saints would have either let it go or taken him to court over it. Who knows what would have happened?

We weren't getting a king's ransom unless he went to Carolina. Maybe Loomis didn't want Payton going to Carolina bad enough that whatever they offered wasn't going to be enough. Idk tho.

 

[SweetT]

I believe that had we held Sean out of play until this offseason we would have been able to net 2 1sts. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Looking at these teams canning their coaches mid season leads me to believe that desperation for a winning coach would have been stronger among owners. They would have given the sun and the moon for Sean. Instead we traded him away, for a modest haul (but not the king’s ransom that we expected).

BINGO. Some people fail to realize that every year, the sense of urgency is heightened to build a winner. GM’s jobs are on the line. Now teams will be able to look at what SP did for the Broncos and what many thought was a washed Russell Wilson, they will pay even more for the next man. SMDH