We Aren't Blowing It Up, So What Now? (1 Viewer)

[Colstonbaby]

We are going to do everything in our power to finish as close to .500 to get the 15th draft pick as possible.

Then we're gonna run it back next year and we all gotta act shocked when we are a .500 team again.

Welcome to purgatory.

Purgatory rules.....till attendance really drops

 

[DSnfla]

Ryan Nielsen, the former DL coach who did well here, was a Payton hire.

Mike Nolan and Michael Hodges, the Linebackers coaches, were both Payton hires.

Aaron Glenn was a Payton hire.

DA himself as Defensive Backs then Defensive Coordinator was a Payton hire.

Payton hung onto the wrong coaches for way too long, but at the same time he assembled some really high quality staffs.

In Denver, Payton's got the #3 scoring defense and the #3 defense in yards per game. The only starter who has been to a Pro Bowl/All Pro team is Pat Surtain. Seems he has put together yet another good defensive staff after one of the most disastrous outings in NFL history last year.

I can almost guarantee that Nielson , Nolan , Hodges and Glenn were DA hires not SP. SP pretty much let DA fill out his defensive staff

 

[CowtownSaint]

Trade for Kupp (3rd rounder) this season, then take another OL in first round next year, a Defender in 2nd round, stock your defence oath 4th round and find the best available offensive player at 5th round.

That’s it, that’s how you move forward in my opinion.

 

[No2DC]

Trade for Kupp (3rd rounder) this season, then take another OL in first round next year, a Defender in 2nd round, stock your defence oath 4th round and find the best available offensive player at 5th round.

That’s it, that’s how you move forward in my opinion.

How old is Kupp now?

 

[504gks]

I think the run D woes start with the interior.

The NTs and 1 techs in the Broncos game were getting walked back into the 2nd level and the rest of the DL wasn't consistently winning 1 on 1s. Then our LBs outside of Davis, who's lost a step, are inexperienced and are missing gap assignments. Werner being out hurts, but we could use another young, dominant player there with high end tools for development.
Safeties have been mediocre against the run. Honey Badger is not a physical, attacking presence in the run game and the other spot is manned by backup quality players.
Alontae Taylor has been pretty good against the run coming out of the slot, and is a willing tackler with good length, but he doesn't sift through traffic and make dynamic tackles behind the LOS quite as well as Chauncey Gardner did.

Starts with Free Agency and then the draft, and then requires some patience for young players to develop and improve.

Free Agency is hard to predict who actually ends up available, and our cap management style makes it impossible to know what to expect for spending. I imagine we'll do what we did last year - cheap affordable options in wave 2 or 3 of FA to massage the future cap, while adding 1 prominent name player coming off injury or a down year to a short term prove it deal for solid money at a key position of need (think Chase Young) to see if they can rebound.

Free Agency:
System fit vet WR who can win inside and offers RAC ability to move the chains who can man WR 1 or 2 in case of injury issues while Means develops. Prominent starter at Safety if Honey Badger leaves and wave 2 or 3 Strong Safety if Honey Badger is extended since the safety market is always an affordable place to shop in the off-season. Either trade Saunders or hope for rebound performance.

Example Options:
FS - Extend Honey Badger 1 year
DE - Extend Chase Young 2 years
WR - Chris Godwin on prove it deal coming off injury
Safety - Jevon Holland in wave 1 or Vonn Bell wave 2


Draft (currently looking at drafting at 5, but I do expect closer to 8-10):
R1 - DT or WR @5, OT/DE/WR @10
R2 - BPA that slips like short arm OT that moves to OG, DT, Safety, TE
R3 - Developmental Safety/Linebacker/OG
R4, R5, R7- BPA Depth

Between picks 5-10, we'll have a shot at a blue chip prospect in a draft that is said to not have many. There are quite a few OT prospects slated for mid 1st to 2nd round, and a couple of the popular names have been considered as OGs due to arm length. The DT class is expected to be pretty good, with late round 1-2 guys. The safety class is expected to be pretty good, with good options in round 2-3. DE has some talented guys that haven't put it all together. TE has a couple late 1st to early 2nd guys, but a big drop off after that.

Example:
R1 - Mason Graham DT (instant starter)
R2 - Wyatt Milium OT (possible starter at OT or OG, or primary backup)
R3 - Nick Emmanwori SS/NB (year 1 dime player or possible starter at SS)

I think you hope to come away from the draft with 1 decent rookie starter, 1 low end starter or 2nd string backup, and a couple developmental depth pieces. Any more than that is unreasonable expectations for year 1 after a draft IMO. But if we can hit on a couple draft picks and a couple FAs, I think we have a more solid looking situation going into 2025.

10 yrs of pretty crappy drafting

 

[saints4eva]

10 yrs of pretty crappy drafting

Simply not true. 2017 was the best draft for the Saints in recent history.

New Orleans Saints draft history: Review of 2017 selections

www.neworleanssaints.com

 

[DSnfla]

With the Kamara signing, it's obvious we aren't planning to blow this team up and rebuild in the off-season. That doesn't necessarily mean Dennis Allen will be retained, but there's probably a better-than-even chance he is.

With the roster, though, I think we can expect Derek Carr to be the starting QB again next year. If we had plans to dump him and his salary, we wouldn't be signing Kamara for the next two years just to create a black hole at the most important position. Honestly, I'm not mad about that. Carr is our best QB by far, he's on a team-friendly deal, and he's shown he can win when we have some semblance of an OL in front of him.

Since we aren't blowing it up, that makes getting under the cap a little simpler. We are going to simply do a series of restructures like always that will push the cap issues into 2026 and 2027.

So with that said, what do we do to fix this team? Booting Allen is the obvious answer, but player-wise, what do we need to fix this run defense? Can we build real depth in the offseason to avoid the issues we had this year? Those are the big questions heading into 2025.

While I am not really a DA fan I don't think he gets the boot and is here next yr unless we just fall apart and here is why.
1st and foremost INJURIES, INJURIES , INJURIES. NO other team has had more amount of injuries and to key players as we have had. That's not up for debate it's just a fact
2nd We have shown what we are capable when healthy in the 1st 2 games. and don't give me that crap about bad teams, yes Car. is a bad team but Dallas is 3-3
and not bad just mediocre. We demolished both teams . If it was KC or Buffalo or Det. no one would be saying " yeah but they beat bad teams"
3, The only player on our roster that has really downgraded due to age is Cam, and this is probably his last yr. DD is the same as he was last yr. Honey Badger was and still is a ball hawk S, he never was a run support guy
4,we are 3, maybe 4 good starters and a bit better depth away from being a contender for a SB and we can fill those needs in next yrs draft and maybe 1 or 2 FA's
5, Myself nor anyone else anywhere can say for sure how good or bad we are going to be when we get everyone healthy again. Yes we lost Shaheed and Adebo , Shaheed is hard to replace but Adebo is not. It would be RIDICULOUS to make any decisions until we know that
6, Let's say we fire DA in season or even after it to go full teardown is not gonna happen overnight which is what any good HC candidate is going to want. Ben Johnson looked at the HC vacancies last yr and said nope, I'll just wait. Also let's say we hire an offensive-minded HC, KK is gone and he shows too much promise to let him go so soon.
It would be unproductive to fire DA mid-season and not find out just what this team is when mostly healthy. I would love to have better HC than DA but we have to see where this team is after 14 games and healthy not 7 and decimated by injuries

 

[Jd101]

It's not surprising that our front 7 isn't good. I feel like every year I'm saying we need to draft a DE and a DT. I'm saying it again for 2025. This is our front 7 investment the past 7 years.

2024
5th Jaylan Ford LB - TBD
6th Kristian Boyd DT - TBD

2023
1st Bryan Bresee DT - Solid
2nd Isaiah Foskey DE - Bust

2022
6th Jordan Jackson DT - Bust

2021
1st Peyton Turner DE - Bust
2nd Pete Werner LB - Solid

2020
3rd Zach Baun LB - Gone

2019
7th Kaden Ellis LB - Gone

2018
1st Marcus Davenport DE - Gone

Wasn't Jordan Jackson playing for the broncos Thursday night. I wouldn't call him a bust

 

[lilvipa221]

We literally signed the game's highest paid free agent available just last year.

We generally have ALWAYS bargain-bin shopped in free agency as a philosophy, even in years when we had money. Only once every so often do we splurge on another team's player. We prefer to bargain shop and draft, and re-sign guys to big money contracts that we have seen perform well in our system and environment.

I'm talking about because of that bonehead we are handicapped and can't use free agency to improve the team at all. We can only sign teams terrible players since we are so far in the hole. In the past we had Brees/Payton to bail us out from free agency misses. That doesn't exist anymore. Carr is the type of QB that needs to be loaded with talent, not lift the players around him.

 

[St. Geezy]

I'm talking about because of that bonehead we are handicapped and can't use free agency to improve the team at all. We can only sign teams terrible players since we are so far in the hole. In the past we had Brees/Payton to bail us out from free agency misses. That doesn't exist anymore. Carr is the type of QB that needs to be loaded with talent, not lift the players around him.

This keeps getting repeated and it’s simply not true. The team can totally sign players by borrowing from the future but they’re intentionally dialing it back for future strategic purposes. We have never been a huge free agency spending team other than once every blue moon to sign a guy like Carr. We bargain shop; it’s our style.

It’s like people have begged for the team to get the cap “problems” in order, and now that they’re trying to dial it back some to align themselves better for their next run, those same fans are now weaponizing that fact and blaming it for not signing players they want or not being able to blow the team up the way they want it to be. You can’t have it both ways.

You can’t say “Oh we need to fix this” then when the team works to improve it say “See, the ‘borrowing from the future’ style is why we now can’t do anything. I hate this!”

 

[MarylandWHODAT]

What now?

 

[Artifactual]

Unless the team has a total meltdown I expect that the Saints will run it back one more time.

Injuries will be the main excuse. It borders on being a legit reason. The Saints can't overhaul the roster in one season and they won't try to. Salary cap restrictions will force the team to extend a few players rather than moving on from them.

You have to hope the Saints get lucky all the way around in 2025 starting with a few low key free agent signings that blossom into above average rotational players, along with a stellar draft and a few undrafted free agent signings.

From that group you have to have at least 2 players step into starting roles.

Then there is the health issue. If the Saints can improve their overall talent and depth and then get lucky enough to go through a season without being decimated by Injuries they could show improvement in 2025.

The one positive if there isn't a full blown coaching regime change is that Kubiak will have his system in place for the 2nd year. He hasn't had but 2 games with a full starting lineup. It looked great in those two games. Another playmaker would certainly help, mostly at WR or TE.

 

[Saint Greg]

Wasn't Jordan Jackson playing for the broncos Thursday night. I wouldn't call him a bust

He didn't make our team. That's a bust to me. But if you want to change that to gone you can. He's not gone because we wanted him. He's played 7 career games and has 8 tackles. I personally don't put him in the same category as Kaden Elliss

 

[Winsett]

It seems like so long ago, but this offseason was positive overall with some good additions.

Penning getting right, that's huge.
Draft Fuaga, huge.
- Solidifying the OT positions is huge no matter what.
Draft Means, developmental X. That's a positive.
Draft Kool-Aid, huge considering how fast CBs go down.
Sign Hayball and Tipton as UDFAs, Hayball has the Punter position locked down and Tipton is carving out a role. That role might be a potentially more explosive Lance Moore, but maybe it can be a Shaheed KR/PR role to allow Shaheed to focus on WR.
Sign Willie Gay, that was a good signing especially with the age decline of DD.
Draft Rattler/Develop Haener, having young development backups with upside is good.

2024-2025 Offseason.
We currently have 6 picks: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6

Areas of need:
NT/DT: We need someone with some size, somebody to stuff the run.

Interior OL: Street guys are probably okay for depth, but we need to put draft capital on the interior OL.

TE: We need a complete TE who can be a playmaker especially if we are going with a lot of TE sets.

WR: We need an X. Means might be that guy, but a playmaker at X would be better.

Who knows what Olave's future with concussions. We'll need an backup plan there.

Wr can address all of those positions in the draft.

I'm with this train of thought as well - though I do wish fans were more considerate that it usually takes a couple years for players to really start contributing. There's a lot to learn at the NFL level when competing against guys who have been mastering their craft for 5-10 additional years. Hoping the rookie NT we drafted, Khristian Boyd, takes the next step into being a plus rotational player. That would alleviate the loss of guys like Roach.

A big time TE would really help with the X problem and run game too. We run a lot of 2 WR sets currently, and haven't had much of a TE presence in the middle of the field. If Tyler Warren or Colston Loveland fall into the 2nd round, they could really change things early.

 

[St. Widge]

He didn't make our team. That's a bust to me. But if you want to change that to gone you can. He's not gone because we wanted him. He's played 7 career games and has 8 tackles. I personally don't put him in the same category as Kaden Elliss

I don't really consider anyone picked from the 5th or 6th round on to be a "bust" in the sense of it was a major error to pick the guy. The draft at that point is a total crap shoot and it often comes down to scheme fit and intangibles to determine if those guys make it. Even more so than in earlier rounds. Teams that are good at drafting are lucky to hit on 1 out of 3 5th to 7th round picks. But hitting on those guys is how a mediocre draft turns into a good or great one.