Question What More Must Taysom Hill Do Before He Retires To Be Considered An NFL Hall Of Fame Player? (2 Viewers)

[Rouxble]

Will Cameron Jordan also be similarly ignored even though he's the Saints all-time franchise career leader in sacks as a Saint (and thats a key difference because Rickey Jackson is second on that list).

Cam Jordan probably has a good shot at the HOF. He is #17 overall on the HOF monitor for DE’s, #3 if you exclude everyone who is already in. He is behind JJ Watt and LC Greenwood in their ranking.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

i'm well aware. I brought up a great example that went against what solarbear said. TD got into the NFL hall of fame for 3 years worth of work. Two years being fairly exceptional alongside a hall of fame coach and qb with a stud offensive line.

You know Priest Holmes has a 3 yr production that blows TD out the water.

He didn't win the accolades Smith did, though. He was close.

 

[UFCSaint]

Is this Taysom's mom? j/k..but I do think we may see him be the first jack-of-all-trades player to get in.

 

[Saintman2884]

Cam Jordan probably has a good shot at the HOF. He is #17 overall on the HOF monitor for DE’s, #3 if you exclude everyone who is already in. He is behind JJ Watt and LC Greenwood in their ranking.

Forgive me for my cynicism, but Rickey Jackson was ranked in the top 10 amongst NFL defensive players all-time when he finally retired for good in 1997 preseason and yet he still had to wait for a dozen years until his achievements and career success was finally acknowledged (Saints having a SB run in 2009 helped I'm sure). Sam Mills was one of the most dominant, well-liked, effective run-stopping MLB's during his career and yet it took over 20 years, nearly 15 years after his sad, tragically-early death in 2005 for him to be inducted.

La'roi Glover had what some might label a borderline HOF career for a DT if one examines his stats, still waiting..

I hope I'm wrong but I am genuinely concerned and worried that like his predecessors in Black and Gold, Cameron Jordan's stellar, outstanding career will be slowly and gradually marginalized, then forgotten within 5-10 years following his retirement unless he becomes a popular FOX sideline reporter or likable, charismatic NFL on CBS studio analyst posts retirement like a Howie Long or Michael Strahan.

 

[SWJJ]

Agreed for the most part, although in Marty's case, it wasnt just that late Montana aside, most of his Chiefs QB's or other QB's were inferior compared to teams they played, his ultra-conservative, play not-to-lose opposed to winning and at times being over-cautious and not allowing his defenses to not go for the knockout were huge factors as well. And he still remains one of the most unluckiest NFL playoff HC's probably in NFL history. SWJJ, he had a sheet ton of dumb, stupid inopportune luck like in Cleveland and with San Diego in 2006 (that last one was not on him, but Marlon McCree's incompetence.)

I agree about his run of bad luck, but I think he had to be ultra conservative because his QBs were all mediocre at best.

If my QBs are 40 something year old Steve DeBerg, Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac and my running backs are Barry Word, Chriatian Okoye, and Marcus Allen I'm gonna be run heavy too.

 

[Rouxble]

Forgive me for my cynicism, but Rickey Jackson was ranked in the top 10 amongst NFL defensive players all-time when he finally retired for good in 1997 preseason and yet he still had to wait for a dozen years until his achievements and career success was finally acknowledged (Saints having a SB run in 2009 helped I'm sure). Sam Mills was one of the most dominant, well-liked, effective run-stopping MLB's during his career and yet it took over 20 years, nearly 15 years after his sad, tragically-early death in 2005 for him to be inducted.

La'roi Glover had what some might label a borderline HOF career for a DT if one examines his stats, still waiting..

I hope I'm wrong but I am genuinely concerned and worried that like his predecessors in Black and Gold, Cameron Jordan's stellar, outstanding career will be slowly and gradually marginalized, then forgotten within 5-10 years following his retirement unless he becomes a popular FOX sideline reporter or likable, charismatic NFL on CBS studio analyst posts retirement like a Howie Long or Michael Strahan.

What helps Jordan is that he was named to an All Decade team, something that Mills, Jackson, and Glover never accomplished (fair or not). Jordan also has more PB selections than all three.

I would say Brees and our 2009 SB run helped to make us relevant enough to get Jordan considered for that honor, and season/decade awards appear to be the major differentiator in who gets in.

 

[Saintman2884]

I agree about his run of bad luck, but I think he had to be ultra conservative because his QBs were all mediocre at best.

If my QBs are 40 something year old Steve DeBerg, Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac and my running backs are Barry Word, Chriatian Okoye, and Marcus Allen I'm gonna be run heavy too.

He did have Dave Krieg for a season or two, didn't he? I wouldn't categorize Krieg or what he achieved over his nearly two-decade long career as mediocre. I agree with you for the most part on the others, but Dave Krieg has to be one of the biggest overachievers at QB in NFL history, he went to three Pro Bowls in Seattle in his 12 seasons there, was their franchise's all-time leader in wins, career TD's and passing yards until Matt Hasselback and Russell Wilson showed up in the 21st century. Sure, he got sacked a lot and had a bit of a fumbling problem but being that he had small hands and that some of his O-lines during the 1980's werent the best, you'd likely get nailed too quite a bit.

I have always had a preference for overachievers, not just in sports but life in general. Their work ethic, attitude and determination and focus is usually 4-5x higher than those around then with more natural, professional skills in business but don't always apply themselves fully. I believe God put overachievers on this planet to remind or warn those of us with higher IQ's, intellegence, natural capabilities and overall skill sets to not slack off or be complacent and apply themselves accordingly.

Dave Krieg was one such person and although he never played a down for New Orleans, I've always liked him and had a deep, admired respect for him as a player and Seattle Seahawks were very lucky to have him as their starting QB for nearly a decade.

I also put Rod Smith of Denver and our very own Marques Colston in the same category and part of me strongly believes that if Colston had finished his career with 1,500-2,000 more receiving yards, he might fall into that "borderline Hall of Famer" category list.

 

[GeneHansen]

I'm not sure I agree with the logic of not voting for someone because other people COULD HAVE done what they do even if they didn't. There are a lot of QBs from the 80s that COULD HAVE put up Brady/Brees number if they had played in this era, but they didn't, so should we eliminate Brady/Brees from consideration? I could've been better than Ricky Jackson if my mom wasn't afraid I was gonna get hurt and made stop playing after Jr High, so does that mean you didn't vote for City Champ? Of course I'm exaggerating to make a point. Sure, those guys could have done it but you make it to the HOF for what you DID. TH7 has done it.

But in order for Taysom to get into the HOF a lot of it has to be based on the speculation that it is because "he can do what no one else can do" because he doesn't have the stats to justify getting in on sheer numbers.

If I'm a HOF voter, and the premise is "he can do what no one else can do"... I'm going to start to wonder if anyone could have done what Taysom has done. When I start to think about it, it seems like there are a lot of big athletic QB who could have been similar "joker/slash" players had they either not become a starting QB or been in a situation to utilize their unique combination of skills.

I'm not knocking Taysom. I love the guy.

 

[SWJJ]

He did have Dave Krieg for a season or two, didn't he? I wouldn't categorize Krieg or what he achieved over his nearly two-decade long career as mediocre. I agree with you for the most part on the others, but Dave Krieg has to be one of the biggest overachievers at QB in NFL history, he went to three Pro Bowls in Seattle in his 12 seasons there, was their franchise's all-time leader in wins, career TD's and passing yards until Matt Hasselback and Russell Wilson showed up in the 21st century. Sure, he got sacked a lot and had a bit of a fumbling problem but being that he had small hands and that some of his O-lines during the 1980's werent the best, you'd likely get nailed too quite a bit.

I have always had a preference for overachievers, not just in sports but life in general. Their work ethic, attitude and determination and focus is usually 4-5x higher than those around then with more natural, professional skills in business but don't always apply themselves fully. I believe God put overachievers on this planet to remind or warn those of us with higher IQ's, intellegence, natural capabilities and overall skill sets to not slack off or be complacent and apply themselves accordingly.

Dave Krieg was one such person and although he never played a down for New Orleans, I've always liked him and had a deep, admired respect for him as a player and Seattle Seahawks were very lucky to have him as their starting QB for nearly a decade.

I also put Rod Smith of Denver and our very own Marques Colston in the same category and part of me strongly believes that if Colston had finished his career with 1,500-2,000 more receiving yards, he might fall into that "borderline Hall of Famer" category list.

Kraig was washed when he got to KC. He was 34 when he got there in '92 and while KC had a good year and went 10-6 Kraig had like a 50-something% completion rate and throw about as many ints as tds.

He was one of the outmatched in the playoff game QBs. They got shut out by the Stan Humphries Chargers, Kraig had a sub 50% completion rate, got sacked 7 times and threw 0 TDs and 2 Ints.

His poor play is why they went and got Joe Montana. In 93 Montana was the starter, and Kraig got to play a handful of games while Montana was injured.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm not sure I agree with the logic of not voting for someone because other people COULD HAVE done what they do even if they didn't. There are a lot of QBs from the 80s that COULD HAVE put up Brady/Brees number if they had played in this era, but they didn't, so should we eliminate Brady/Brees from consideration? I could've been better than Ricky Jackson if my mom wasn't afraid I was gonna get hurt and made me stop playing after Jr High, so does that mean you didn't vote for City Champ? Of course I'm exaggerating to make a point. Sure, those guys could have done it but you make it to the HOF for what you DID. TH7 has done it.

Is this supposed to be an argument for or against Hill getting into the HoF? Because it looks like an argument against it. Had he been switched to his current role 5 or 6 years ago maybe he would have put up the numbers necessary and gotten the awards necessary to get into the HoF, but that didn't happen. He's a great all around player, but he hasn't put up good enough numbers in any category or gotten any major awards (MVP, SB MVP, etc.) to really get HoF consideration.

Getting into the HoF is a high bar. The truth is that had Brees not won a Super Bowl, there would be some question of whether he gets in. I think he would have gotten in on the strength of his numbers, but there would have been a discussion. And the best defensive player we have had since Rickey Jackson, Cam Jordan, might not get in due to a lack of SB wins.

 

[Covington Saint]

But in order for Taysom to get into the HOF a lot of it has to be based on the speculation that it is because "he can do what no one else can do" because he doesn't have the stats to justify getting in on sheer numbers.

If I'm a HOF voter, and the premise is "he can do what no one else can do"... I'm going to start to wonder if anyone could have done what Taysom has done. When I start to think about it, it seems like there are a lot of big athletic QB who could have been similar "joker/slash" players had they either not become a starting QB or been in a situation to utilize their unique combination of skills.

I'm not knocking Taysom. I love the guy.

No QB ever could do all the things Taysom can do. Taysom's power. Taysom's speed. Taysom's arm. Taysom's violence. Taysom blocking. Taysom at Fullback. Taysom at running back. Taysom at tight end receiving. Taysom at tight end blocking the biggest guys on defense. Taysom as a wide receiver. Taysom as a wildcat qb. Taysom at all the special teams roles they've utilized him over the years. Nothing close has ever been done at the broad spectrum taysom has done it.

 

[Saintman2884]

Kraig was washed when he got to KC. He was 34 when he got there in '92 and while KC had a good year and went 10-6 Kraig had like a 50-something% completion rate and throw about as many ints as tds.

He was one of the outmatched in the playoff game QBs. They got shut out by the Stan Humphries Chargers, Kraig had a sub 50% completion rate, got sacked 7 times and threw 0 TDs and 2 Ints.

His poor play is why they went and got Joe Montana. In 93 Montana was the starter, and Kraig got to play a handful of games while Montana was injured.

But you wouldn't classify his career as being mediocre? He was a 3x Pro Bowl.on some very good, competitive 1980's Seahawks teams who happened to be a very good team stuck in a ultra-tough, extremely competitive and difficult AFC West who's two best teams, Denver Broncos and Oakland/L.A. Raiders made 5 SB appearances and two SB wins throughout the 1980's. Odd how that seems strangely similar to our predicament in the old NFC West in the 1980's and early 90's in same division with the reigning 49ers Dynasty and a very good, mostly competitive old L.A. Rams teams in Anaheim of the same time period. From 1980-89, Rams made the post-season 7 times and appeared in two NFCCG's while 49ers won 4 Super Bowls.

Krieg was also a bit of what we now call a "streaky QB", especially by his mid-late 30's, where he has 2-3 very good/great games, maybe 4-5 decent/iffy games and the rest is below-average/awful. He obviously showed some tendencies related to that problem in Seattle, but once his career reached its third act, it became a lot more apparent and common place once he arrived in Kansas City, then Detroit, and Chicago.

 

[SWJJ]

But you wouldn't classify his career as being mediocre? He was a 3x Pro Bowl.on some very good, competitive 1980's Seahawks teams who happened to be a very good team stuck in a ultra-tough, extremely competitive and difficult AFC West who's two best teams, Denver Broncos and Oakland/L.A. Raiders made 5 SB appearances and two SB wins throughout the 1980's. Odd how that seems strangely similar to our predicament in the old NFC West in the 1980's and early 90's in same division with the reigning 49ers Dynasty and a very good, mostly competitive old L.A. Rams teams in Anaheim of the same time period. From 1980-89, Rams made the post-season 7 times and appeared in two NFCCG's while 49ers won 4 Super Bowls.

Krieg was also a bit of what we now call a "streaky QB", especially by his mid-late 30's, where he has 2-3 very good/great games, maybe 4-5 decent/iffy games and the rest is below-average/awful. He obviously showed some tendencies related to that problem in Seattle, but once his career reached its third act, it became a lot more apparent and common place once he arrived in Kansas City, then Detroit, and Chicago.

I wouldn't call his career Mediocre, but I would call his play in KC mediocre to poor. Especially his post season performance.

 

[CajunSaint08]

What accomplishments?? The highest accolades you can get in the NFL are as follows: MVP, DPOY, All Pro, and the Pro Bowl. TH has NONE of these. None!!!


To even put TH name up with Tiger, Deon, Farve, Manning, Brady, and Michael Jordan is embarrassing. I'm wondering if this is satire. If you're serious you need to seriously stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

We all love TH but he's a jack of all trades, master of none. Oh and he lost his starting QB job.

He's not even and has never been the best offensive player on any team he's ever been on and you speak his name with the likes of Tom Brady???

Come on guys this is just wayyyy too much.

What accomplishments you ask? Obviously you did not read the OP's post. But all one has to do is watch Taysom Hill play to know he is usually the best player on the field. You say Jack of all trades, master of none. I say Jack of all trades, Master of many. I don't think you are truly a Saint's fan to not see how special Taysom has been for the Saints. And the job he is doing this year has been his best yet.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

What accomplishments you ask? Obviously you did not read the OP's post. But all one has to do is watch Taysom Hill play to know he is usually the best player on the field. You say Jack of all trades, master of none. I say Jack of all trades, Master of many. I don't think you are truly a Saint's fan to not see how special Taysom has been for the Saints. And the job he is doing this year has been his best yet.

Those accomplishments dont hold weight for the HOF.

Get off your high horse trying to gatekeep saints fandom. Cringe dude.

We all love TH and think he's a special, unique player but that doesn't make him a HOFer. Especially in the NFL where is really difficult.