Why the low draft grades? (4 Viewers)

[Eman5805]

Because quantity trumps quality in many's eyes. I'd rather cheat and shoot for both, but if it's one or the other, give me quality. Because the Saints don't seem to care about nebulous position groupings from the perspective of a fan who barely cared about looking at prospects. They are going after men with names who they knew. Spoke with. Met their coaches. Had dinner with. Watched every piece of film available, and then worked them out and grilled them on their thought processes.

10 unknown guys like a fan or 3 or 4 guys they know cold? Saints are choosing the latter. Like always.

Besides. I remember someone saying we had so many holes to fill. But really, we didn't have 7 open roster slots on this team. We needed a WR (which we got), a tackle (which we got), and a safety (which we didn't really get, but sort of).

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

Seeing pretty much grades of “C” across the board on all the sites.

Main criticism is we gave up too much- but haven’t seen any real criticism of the actual picks.

Considering we got 3 key pieces - it feels like a huge success.

1) We now have 2 WRs with vertical speed to stretch the field (Olave, Harris) and will free up Thomas in the slant game. Winston will have a much easier time with this.

2) 2 mean mauling tackles with Ram and Pennington, protecting Winston

3) A solid S replacement after losing Marcus Williams.

Love the picks so far. I clearly remember prior drafts where we cut half our picks or more anyways…so I say 3 potential starters is a win

I think this whole "Value" proposition is over rated in the NFL draft. When viewed in a silo maybe it makes sense but this is about building a team. The Saints FO looks more at filling needs than about making sure we get the appropriate value. Olave was at a MUST position and is either the best WR or in the top 3. So we filled a big need with a top level talent. Did we over pay? Perhaps.. But we dramatically upgraded not only the position but our team as a whole. So if we were worried about "value" we could have waited... gotten value... but with a player that would not have provided the upgrade on the team

So maybe the ATL got "Value" getting their QB some viewed as a #2 at #3.. Good for them.. This guy is a mid level QB that may be servicable in a couple of years... They got "value"... But will this guy have the same IMPACT as Olave? I think not

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I am not comfortable with the quality vs. quantity argument.

First, you need more than four draft picks every year to have enough players on the team who are legitimate starters in the NFL. You can find in rounds three and four tight ends, running backs, defensive tackle, linebackers, safeties. We have seen in recent years the limits of relying so heavily year after year on undrafted free agents.

Second, the number of players a team has playing under their rookie contract, the better a team's position should be relative to managing the salary cap.

Third, there is risk in every draft selection. Not every first-round draft pick becomes a star or even a quality starting player. Given the time he has missed because of injuries and the price we paid to draft him, I would argue that selecting Davenport was a questionable selection. And then we have Cesar Ruiz, who has been a disappointment, and Payton Turner, who is a question mark. In short, drafting is really hard; no team hits all the time on even very high draft picks; and to get quality, it helps within reason to have quantity or as many at-bats as a team can get. No, I would have rather have a high first-round pick than 20 seventh-round picks. But I might prefer picks 16 and 40 to pick 12. It obviously depends on the draft. But in many drafts, the grade difference between player 20 and 35 on a team's board might be very small, and half the teams in the league might have the player at 35 ranked as highly as the player ranked at 20.

 

[JustaSharkie]

The same sports media is telling me the JETS are winning the 2022 draft.

 

[Bongi]

Because quantity trumps quality in many's eyes. I'd rather cheat and shoot for both, but if it's one or the other, give me quality. Because the Saints don't seem to care about nebulous position groupings from the perspective of a fan who barely cared about looking at prospects. They are going after men with names who they knew. Spoke with. Met their coaches. Had dinner with. Watched every piece of film available, and then worked them out and grilled them on their thought processes.

10 unknown guys like a fan or 3 or 4 guys they know cold? Saints are choosing the latter. Like always.

Besides. I remember someone saying we had so many holes to fill. But really, we didn't have 7 open roster slots on this team. We needed a WR (which we got), a tackle (which we got), and a safety (which we didn't really get, but sort of).

I have always liked the Patriots approach. Trade back and collect picks. If someone falls, you can trade up and get them. If you need a LB, if you have alot of picks, why not draft 2? Rather than rely on 1 guy. One could be depth. Like when the Pat's drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez. If you have a good scouting department, you can find guys that don't get as much hype.

What were the draft pundits saying right after the 2017 draft? It turned out to be one of the best drafts. Who would have thought AK would turn out to be a superstar and we hit on almost every pick?

 

[NEBaghead]

The same sports media is telling me the JETS are winning the 2022 draft.

Win the draft or be playoff contenders year after year. Jacksonville has had back to back As for their first round draft choices.

 

[Saint Droopy]

I've seen a couple of those grades and the "problem" that they have with Day 1 is that they felt we gave up too much for a non-QB.

Giving up two mid-round picks to move up five spots for Olave, in addition to trading future capital to the Eagles to select two non-quarterbacks on Thursday, was not an ideal use of resources.

On Day 2 they say Taylor was overdrafted:

In the second round, New Orleans selected a versatile defensive back in Taylor, whose size (6-foot, 199 pounds) and athleticism are nice. However, I projected him to be a third- or fourth-round prospect, not selected in the top 50.

I never pay attention to these ratings because you can't judge a draft class for a couple years. The Saints moved up to get the WR they felt was the best in the draft, and they saw the run on WRs begin and felt Olave wouldn't be available at 16. When have the Saints ever let "their guy" sit on a draft board? They've ALWAYS moved up to draft the player that they wanted. Tha's why I have no problem with they trading up for Olave.

The team seem to love Penning and Taylor, so I'm cool with those as well. They're responsible for developing these guys and they're the ones paying them. So as a fan I can only hope for the best.

 

[tim martin]

I like Loomis and Ireland and we draft we’ll rounds 1-3 but not very good after. I can’t put them In the category of Baltimore or Indy with Ballard when it comes to drafting. We draft too many projects that don’t pan out

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

I am not comfortable with the quality vs. quantity argument.

First, you need more than four draft picks every year to have enough players on the team who are legitimate starters in the NFL. You can find in rounds three and four tight ends, running backs, defensive tackle, linebackers, safeties. We have seen in recent years the limits of relying so heavily year after year on undrafted free agents.

Second, the number of players a team has playing under their rookie contract, the better a team's position should be relative to managing the salary cap.

Third, there is risk in every draft selection. Not every first-round draft pick becomes a star or even a quality starting player. Given the time he has missed because of injuries and the price we paid to draft him, I would argue that selecting Davenport was a questionable selection. And then we have Cesar Ruiz, who has been a disappointment, and Payton Turner, who is a question mark. In short, drafting is really hard; no team hits all the time on even very high draft picks; and to get quality, it helps within reason to have quantity or as many at-bats as a team can get. No, I would have rather have a high first-round pick than 20 seventh-round picks. But I might prefer picks 16 and 40 to pick 12. It obviously depends on the draft. But in many drafts, the grade difference between player 20 and 35 on a team's board might be very small, and half the teams in the league might have the player at 35 ranked as highly as the player ranked at 20.

While I don't necessarily agree with your premise, I get your philosophy.... I read a lot of "mights" in your post... I prefer to get closer to "probable" in making a TOP pick. We went "might" in several of those examples you provided... Turner for example.... But THIS year our #1 is a high "probable" and we had to pay for it... I'm good with it..

By all accounts we are in the top third (?) of the league in talent. Now you move onto a different philosophy.. Win now or build a team. We have been in a win now position for a few years.. and while we have not gotten to the peak... man we have gotten close and it has been fun... Going back to the ATL... They are clearly "building" and I get them wanting "value". I believe under ML's leadership we have the ability to fill in in the coming years. We may get a #1 in return for SP... Our salary cap is getting better and in the years to come we will be more aggressive in free agency...

I believe the key to this argument is your front office... I think under ML we will continue to be aggressive... will continue to search for quality and will fill in quantity

 

[bw]

Our Super Bowl window is now closed. Our over-under win number is Las Vegas is at best nine. We are essentially a 9-8 team. Yes, we will be competitive. Yes, we could be in the playoff race. Yes, if we stay healthy and get breaks, we might even play in a playoff game. But we are not close to being a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

I am just curious, what is the difference between a perennial playoff team (4 straight years, would have been 5 last year if not for everything this team went through, yet still made it all the way to the last play of another game in the last week of the season before being eliminated) and a legitimate Super Bowl contender? One would think a team that just keeps reloading and making the playoffs every year would be in that echelon, but I’m open to being educated.

 

[Colstonbaby]

Seeing pretty much grades of “C” across the board on all the sites.

Main criticism is we gave up too much- but haven’t seen any real criticism of the actual picks.

Considering we got 3 key pieces - it feels like a huge success.

1) We now have 2 WRs with vertical speed to stretch the field (Olave, Harris) and will free up Thomas in the slant game. Winston will have a much easier time with this.

2) 2 mean mauling tackles with Ram and Pennington, protecting Winston

3) A solid S replacement after losing Marcus Williams.

Love the picks so far. I clearly remember prior drafts where we cut half our picks or more anyways…so I say 3 potential starters is a win

 

[Colstonbaby]

Had we not traded to No 11, we could still have got Treylon Burks or Dotson AND Penning anyway.

That wouldn't be too bad.....as we would kept some valuable picks!!

So, I won't go beyond B-

 

[los226]

The top 100 picks are the most important IMO. So I can see why the low grades given that the Saints gave up two potential players for one. But I’ve learned not to question draft choices since Ireland has came on board.

 

[St.Fury]

As of now, I can’t give the team a mark higher than a C.

We had two goals for the upcoming draft:

To find the players to keep or make us more competitive.

To use rookie salaries in order to clean the cap.

Clearly we got two, maybe three players so far that fit the goals.

But at the same time, we committed way too many resources obtaining these players. For this and the next two drafts.

Second and third round picks may not be building blocks, but core players that can give us 3-4 years on cheap salaries. We have given those away.

We are already cap strained, and giving away those present and future picks restrain us to move around and be able to make decisions building a younger roster.

We achieved quality, but forgot about much needed quantity.

It’s too early to grade the off-season, but even now I can say that giving away resources will keep the grade down for me.

We are one of the winningest teams in the league over the past half decade or so. We have a strong roster with limited holes. If we were the Jags, this method wouldn‘t make sense. But we have the luxury of going for quality over quantity. I love that this team targeted players they felt were the right fit and fill the right holes.

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

Had we not traded to No 11, we could still have got Treylon Burks or Dotson AND Penning anyway.

That wouldn't be too bad.....as we would kept some valuable picks!!

So, I won't go beyond B-

Did we want "not so bad" plus role players or a very top level WR at a great position of need