Yacht Rock a Dockumentary (3 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

Watch the Dock.

His musical and song writing talent is remarkable.

oddly he reminds me of Phil Collins a bit (if you take out the top and bottom Phil Collins songs)
making palatable songs that are enhanced tremendously by whatever movie they're attached to
maybe they're the musical equivalent of potatoes - best as a side and not that hard to make very tasty, but probably lacking the oomph to be featured

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

So this is a fascinating issue - and I think we have to start with the history of the term "yacht rock" itself. While the musical sub-genre took place from the mid-70s to the early 80s - the term yacht rock didn't come about until the mid 2000s. It's hard to know its very original use, but the first documented use is in the series "Yacht Rock" (with Hollywood Steve) that some LA area film students produced and posted online. I posted episode 1 above and was familiar with it back then (2005 ish).

What this means is that the whole notion of yacht rock developed organically 25 or so years later based on what a bunch of songs from an era share stylistically. Yes, there's some genuine basis to attribute it to a sort of smooth, yuppy-ish, slightly jazzy sound to a boating vibe - but it's that specific sound and production value that defines yacht rock and not necessarily hard swim lanes about specific artists, or even dates.

Steely Dan, for example, definitely made some yacht rock. The Aja album has Deacon Blues, Black Cow, and Babylon Sister and are as yachty as rock gets. But most of the Steely Dan earlier catalog is not . . . not only because the timing isn't right but the sound/style isn't right. Aja came out in 1977, when the yacht rock sound was well underway, but there's probably examples of genuine yacht rock before that. Also, I think the genuine era was short, by about 1981, the real stuff was mostly over.

BUT all this means there's ample room for debate.

i'd assumed it was 'yacht' bc "Sailing" is the perfect encapsulation of that sound

 

[superchuck500]

i'd assumed it was 'yacht' bc "Sailing" is the perfect encapsulation of that sound

I'd say Sailing is a symptom/reflection rather than a cause or origin. Sailing was 1979, well into the period and yachty elements were already there.

Consider, for example, this album cover from Kenny Loggins - one of the most central figures of the yacht rock era - in 1973 . . . this is proto-yacht rock.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I'd say Sailing is a symptom/reflection rather than a cause or origin. Sailing was 1979, well into the period and yachty elements were already there.

right but your contention is that this era was named well after it came and (mostly) went
cause/origin might not have that much influence on the people categorizing it
Like if I want to post a picture of a yuppie, i'm not posting a picture of the first guy to wear his sweater with sleeves tied jauntily around his neck

 

[efil4stnias]

I'd say Sailing is a symptom/reflection rather than a cause or origin. Sailing was 1979, well into the period and yachty elements were already there.

Consider, for example, this album cover from Kenny Loggins - one of the most central figures of the yacht rock era - in 1973 . . . this is proto-yacht rock.

funny enough, the ONLY artist to don a "captains hat" was Captain from Captain and Tennille, which werent considered "Yacht Rock"

This documentary discusses all these aspects. ( as it was born out of the comedians you posted about previously )

Sailing was at arguably the "peak" of this genre, which is why it garners the attention it gets. ( and they discuss this too )

dont want to give too much away, but yall are discussing some of the exact aspects of this documentary which is really cool.

side note- Kenny credits Stevie Nicks in launching his solo career post Messina.

 

[superchuck500]

right but your contention is that this era was named well after it came and (mostly) went
cause/origin might not have that much influence on the people categorizing it
Like if I want to post a picture of a yuppie, i'm not posting a picture of the first guy to wear his sweater with sleeves tied jauntily around his neck

 

[efil4stnias]

i'm not posting a picture of the first guy to wear his sweater with sleeves tied jauntily around his neck

hold up, you got Chucks college freshman yearbook photo?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

hold up, you got Chucks college freshman yearbook photo?

Vanderbilt wouldn't release them

 

[Booker]

Watch the Dock.

His musical and song writing talent is remarkable.

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him for writing House at Pooh Corner (though I prefer the original Nitty Gritty Dirt Band version to the one he released a few years later).

 

[superchuck500]

funny enough, the ONLY artist to don a "captains hat" was Captain from Captain and Tennille, which werent considered "Yacht Rock"

This documentary discusses all these aspects. ( as it was born out of the comedians you posted about previously )

Sailing was at arguably the "peak" of this genre, which is why it garners the attention it gets. ( and they discuss this too )

dont want to give too much away, but yall are discussing some of the exact aspects of this documentary which is really cool.

side note- Kenny credits Stevie Nicks in launching his solo career post Messina.

Interestingly, I don't think that Sailing is a good example of the genre from a musical stylistic standpoint. Certainly from a vibe and theme standpoint, yes, it's renowned. But it's a song with a solo vocal built on acoustic guitar and embellished with strings, in A major with pentatonic picking in a very steady tempo - that's not the primary yacht rock sound. Yacht rock is generally more about multi-piece instrumentation, with jazz elements in key/scale, varied tempo, and layered vocals. Deacon Blues, Minute by Minute, and Biggest Part of Me are far more quintessential yacht rock songs.

 

[BigOdin504]

Is that meant as a compliment or a put down?

I don't consider Steely Dan "yacht rock" for even a second. It's jazz fusion and not anywhere near "poppish" enough to be thrown in with the likes of Cross, Loggins, etc. And I admit my bias as one who is not a fan of yacht rock.
While I'm okay with the tunes Michael McDonald wrote for The Doobie Brothers, I will quickly tell you they are near the bottom of my list of Doobie Brothers songs. His solo stuff you can have. Just my taste...

Agreed about Michael McDonald. His voice irks my soul.

 

[BigOdin504]

oddly he reminds me of Phil Collins a bit (if you take out the top and bottom Phil Collins songs)
making palatable songs that are enhanced tremendously by whatever movie they're attached to
maybe they're the musical equivalent of potatoes - best as a side and not that hard to make very tasty, but probably lacking the oomph to be featured

Early genesis phil collins(on drums) is a whole nother thing.

 

[efil4stnias]

Interestingly, I don't think that Sailing is a good example of the genre from a musical stylistic standpoint. Certainly from a vibe and theme standpoint, yes, it's renowned. But it's a song with a solo vocal built on acoustic guitar and embellished with strings, in A major with pentatonic picking in a very steady tempo - that's not the primary yacht rock sound. Yacht rock is generally more about multi-piece instrumentation, with jazz elements in key/scale, varied tempo, and layered vocals. Deacon Blues, Minute by Minute, and Biggest Part of Me are far more quintessential yacht rock songs.

one instrument in particular- the Fender & Rhodes keyboard piano

What i found so fascinating is these guys were ALL session guys- Michael MacDonald, the Porcaro brothers ( the entire band Toto really ), Steely Dan duo, so many more that are on credits but not "band members" all in LA music scene that ended up creating some really long-lived music. ( and bonafide hits at that time )

Michael McDonald talks about this skit from SCTV- how it poked fun at his constant movement doing session work - saw it in a hotel room, high, and thought he was hallucinating ( Rick Moranis actually apologized to him for the portrayal lol )

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Early genesis phil collins(on drums) is a whole nother thing.

once he 'moved past' peter gabriel , yes

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

So this is a fascinating issue - and I think we have to start with the history of the term "yacht rock" itself. While the musical sub-genre took place from the mid-70s to the early 80s - the term yacht rock didn't come about until the mid 2000s. It's hard to know its very original use, but the first documented use is in the series "Yacht Rock" (with Hollywood Steve) that some LA area film students produced and posted online. I posted episode 1 above and was familiar with it back then (2005 ish).

What this means is that the whole notion of yacht rock developed organically 25 or so years later based on what a bunch of songs from an era share stylistically. Yes, there's some genuine basis to attribute it to a sort of smooth, yuppy-ish, slightly jazzy sound to a boating vibe - but it's that specific sound and production value that defines yacht rock and not necessarily hard swim lanes about specific artists, or even dates.

I totally get that Yacht Rock is a manufactured term that came about way after the heyday of that type of music.. it’s funny, i remember you and i having a discussion on here about YR circa 2007 i think, not long after id signed up for this site (i think i had a different user name ) and before you and I realized we actually knew each other in real life lol .. i do think it’s organic b/c anytime someone first hears the term Yacht Rock , anyone who was alive back then and owned a radio totally gets exactly what it means .

Steely Dan, for example, definitely made some yacht rock. The Aja album has Deacon Blues, Black Cow, and Babylon Sister and are as yachty as rock gets. But most of the Steely Dan earlier catalog is not . . . not only because the timing isn't right but the sound/style isn't right. Aja came out in 1977, when the yacht rock sound was well underway, but there's probably examples of genuine yacht rock before that. Also, I think the genuine era was short, by about 1981, the real stuff was mostly over.

BUT all this means there's ample room for debate.

Yeah there’s some room for debate b/c for some reason i cant associate Steely Dan with Yacht Rock as easily as maybe some other people can.. i still havent a had a chance yet to check out the doc and maybe ill feel differently after viewing it, and yes Stelly Dan’s music has a very mellow vibe for some reason, for me it just hits different than YR does … i do think that 1977 is too early for YR, it’s really 1978-1982 for me .. interestingly , on the Sirius XM Yacht Rock channel’s intros and outros between songs they mention exactly two cities- Marina del Rey and Siesta Key- and i have in my life resided in both places ! So i guess i was meant to be a yacht rocker .