20 years worth of baptisms invalidated (2 Viewers)

[SystemShock]

Again, why are you quoting me?
But ok...

As a selling point, the problem with using a single verse, is that it conflicts with other verses. E.g. Matthew 5:20 (one must follow Jewish law better than the Pharisees to "get in") or Matthew 25:31 (sheep/charitable people "get in" and goats/uncharitable do not). Islam, on the other hand, has just one book.

John 3:16 is not in conflict with those verses. John 3:16 is the ad, "this is what you get"; verses like those are the fine print, "this is how you get it".

Another problem with this particular verse as a selling point is that while it sounds sweet at first, it begs the question, why is human sacrifice necessary to bail us out for god's own mistake?

What brings about the offer is besides the point. If a blender is 50% off, it doesn't matter if it is black Friday or a going out of business sale; to the consumer, the blender is 50%.

And, there's no virgins. If I am shopping religions on the basis of a bliss promise, I am going with multiple virgins.

Ok?
No one shops religions like they shop blenders.

You are just throwing random talking points/arguments at me, and I don't get why.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Deep down we are all terrible people

i guess it depends on what you consider terrible.

 

[DaveXA]

I absolutely agree with you

however, religion is the most prominently used justification for all types of bigotry....

"god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" for example

Sure. And people use all kinds of things to justify their bigotry, racism and whatever else. The Bible or any other religious book is probably most often used because it's what they know or use.

That said, if there were no religious books, people would still be bigots and whatever else that makes them terrible.

 

[SystemShock]

I think the biological imperative is a consequence of self preservation and preservation of your immediate well-being. It’s rooted in selfishness

Well, if running away from predators to not be eaten alive pre-stone age is selfish, yeah, I'm selfish like that too.

 

[Consigliere]

Nobody in my office is here or working this morning so I am just teeing off on my favorite mythology. No offense to any particular poster here.

I think we are saying the same thing. It is people’s own best interest to have a strong community. But they aren’t building good communities for the betterment of humanity

Kumbaya!

 

[SystemShock]

That said, if there were no religious books, people would still be bigots and whatever else that makes them terrible.

I wouldn't phrase it like that, but that is a valid point, and a good topic for a more philosophical discussion. What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

 

[Booker]

Deep down we are all terrible people

I completely disagree with this. I know some religions teach this -- perhaps to make the faithful dependent on the church for salvation? Or to give cover to being unaccepting of others?

If it's taught that we're all terrible deep down, and the only thing that makes us less terrible is if we worship the correct god in the correct manner, does it then become easier to see others who don't worship, or worship differently, as being irredeemably terrible?

I've been on this planet almost 50 years, and yes, there are terrible people, but there are also wonderful people who do wonderful things.

 

[DaveXA]

I wouldn't phrase it like that, but that is a valid point, and a good topic for a more philosophical discussion. What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

I'm sure some things , whether religion, power, politics would amplify those terrible tendencies in people, no doubt. The gods, mythology, philosophical writings et al are more a reflection of either ideals or flaws of humanity. The gods are ultimately human creations.

Definitely an interesting topic.

 

[Consigliere]

... What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

Do it here! We can do it without going Republican/Democrat.

 

[Eeyore]

Deep down we are all terrible people

I agree. We are a product of our upbringing. We are raised in a despicable society by despicable people. If we had been like this before we developed the ability to breed and feed ourselves quickly we wouldn't have survived as a species. We had to cooperate to survive. Then we did well enough to allow deviants to exist and breed. The deviants do well among us because they have plenty of regular people to prey upon. Had humans been 100% deviants, they would have starved out because the deviants contribute nothing and are unable to cooperate enough to build a civilization.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I agree

what have you personality done that makes you a terrible person?
i may have done some immoral or even things that made me a not so good person, but i don't be think I've done anything that makes me a terrible person

 

[Booker]

I wouldn't phrase it like that, but that is a valid point, and a good topic for a more philosophical discussion. What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

It would be an interesting thought experiment, god worship being so intertwined with human history. They started out as a stand in for the elements and what could not be understood, with the earliest gods generally being community gods worshipped for agricultural favor -- and later favor in war and other activities. And then over time, god worship turned to personal salvation, so that worshipping the right god, be it Osiris, Dionysus, Jesus, etc., provided an avenue to defeat death and attain eternal life in one fashion or another.

Take that all away, is it a net positive or a net negative? My guess is that people who use their religion to justify bad behavior would find new justifications for those behaviors, and likewise with those that are inspired by their faith to commit acts of good behavior.

 

[Eeyore]

what have you personality done that makes you a terrible person?
i may have done some immoral or even things that made me a not so good person, but i don't be think I've done anything that makes me a terrible person

Ever walk by a homeless person and not help? That's enough in my eyes. I've done it too many times.

 

[SystemShock]

Do it here! We can do it without going Republican/Democrat.

MAP has a religion and philosophy board, that doesn't delve into politics.