20 years worth of baptisms invalidated (1 Viewer)

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think the biological imperative is a consequence of self preservation and preservation of your immediate well-being. It’s rooted in selfishness

Nope
If selfishness was the biological imperative, we’d have died off before we started
Self-preservation requires strong community

 

[DaveXA]

currently, the biggest selling point for Christianity is that you can you can use it to justify being a terrible person

People can use anything to justify being a terrible person even though it doesn't actually justify it.

Ultimatrly, nothing justifies being a terrible person.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Nope
If selfishness was the biological imperative, we’d have died off before we started
Self-preservation requires strong community

I think we are saying the same thing. It is people’s own best interest to have a strong community. But they aren’t building good communities for the betterment of humanity

 

[donato]

I think you could just change it up a little. Deep down we are flawed people.

 

[antipop]

People can use anything to justify being a terrible person even though it doesn't actually justify it.

Ultimatrly, nothing justifies being a terrible person.

I absolutely agree with you

however, religion is the most prominently used justification for all types of bigotry....

"god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" for example

 

[DaveXA]

I'll pile on.

I no longer believe that any of these exist but...

The allure of being a Christian is that you get to commit heinous acts, and behave immorally and be rewarded for it by simply asking to be forgiven.

That's not how it works.

I'll double down and stare that the Abrahamic god creates evil (Isaiah 45:7) and promises to reward his evil creations with a "heaven" as a reward.

That's not how I read it.

The opposite entity (Satan) is believed to punish people who commit evil acts and is hated for doing so by Christians.

No.

I believe that most people who identify as Christian are basically good people and are mislead. I also believe that most of them have very little knowledge of the religion to which they identify. Most people who I know struggle to read, so they don't. They also struggle to comprehend and and apply what they can read. Even more people simply refuse and leave it to others to tell them what to believe.

That may be true to some degree, but ultimately, thats a demonstration of people being flawed. We're all flawed to some degree or another. We all make wrong assumptions and/or conclusions fron time to time, and hopefully we learn and grow from what we learn.

I believe that most people are simply following the pack and identify so heavily with what they have been told that breaking away from the identity would invalidate the beliefs they were taught by all who they love. It isn't easy. It's traumatic.

Yes, losing faith in whatever you believe can indeed be traumatic for people. That means in some cases struggles with family and friends while going through those changes. That happens with both religious and non-religious people. Change is difficult for a lot of people.

 

[SystemShock]

Again, why are you quoting me?
But ok...

As a selling point, the problem with using a single verse, is that it conflicts with other verses. E.g. Matthew 5:20 (one must follow Jewish law better than the Pharisees to "get in") or Matthew 25:31 (sheep/charitable people "get in" and goats/uncharitable do not). Islam, on the other hand, has just one book.

John 3:16 is not in conflict with those verses. John 3:16 is the ad, "this is what you get"; verses like those are the fine print, "this is how you get it".

Another problem with this particular verse as a selling point is that while it sounds sweet at first, it begs the question, why is human sacrifice necessary to bail us out for god's own mistake?

What brings about the offer is besides the point. If a blender is 50% off, it doesn't matter if it is black Friday or a going out of business sale; to the consumer, the blender is 50%.

And, there's no virgins. If I am shopping religions on the basis of a bliss promise, I am going with multiple virgins.

Ok?
No one shops religions like they shop blenders.

You are just throwing random talking points/arguments at me, and I don't get why.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Deep down we are all terrible people

i guess it depends on what you consider terrible.

 

[DaveXA]

I absolutely agree with you

however, religion is the most prominently used justification for all types of bigotry....

"god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" for example

Sure. And people use all kinds of things to justify their bigotry, racism and whatever else. The Bible or any other religious book is probably most often used because it's what they know or use.

That said, if there were no religious books, people would still be bigots and whatever else that makes them terrible.

 

[SystemShock]

I think the biological imperative is a consequence of self preservation and preservation of your immediate well-being. It’s rooted in selfishness

Well, if running away from predators to not be eaten alive pre-stone age is selfish, yeah, I'm selfish like that too.

 

[Consigliere]

Nobody in my office is here or working this morning so I am just teeing off on my favorite mythology. No offense to any particular poster here.

I think we are saying the same thing. It is people’s own best interest to have a strong community. But they aren’t building good communities for the betterment of humanity

Kumbaya!

 

[SystemShock]

That said, if there were no religious books, people would still be bigots and whatever else that makes them terrible.

I wouldn't phrase it like that, but that is a valid point, and a good topic for a more philosophical discussion. What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

 

[Booker]

Deep down we are all terrible people

I completely disagree with this. I know some religions teach this -- perhaps to make the faithful dependent on the church for salvation? Or to give cover to being unaccepting of others?

If it's taught that we're all terrible deep down, and the only thing that makes us less terrible is if we worship the correct god in the correct manner, does it then become easier to see others who don't worship, or worship differently, as being irredeemably terrible?

I've been on this planet almost 50 years, and yes, there are terrible people, but there are also wonderful people who do wonderful things.

 

[DaveXA]

I wouldn't phrase it like that, but that is a valid point, and a good topic for a more philosophical discussion. What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

I'm sure some things , whether religion, power, politics would amplify those terrible tendencies in people, no doubt. The gods, mythology, philosophical writings et al are more a reflection of either ideals or flaws of humanity. The gods are ultimately human creations.

Definitely an interesting topic.

 

[Consigliere]

... What would be of humanity if humanity never believed in gods? Particularly gods of war, gods of the afterlife... I may start a convo over at MAP about this.

Do it here! We can do it without going Republican/Democrat.