Derek Carr won’t take a pay cut for 2025 but willing to restructure to help the cap (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Another way of looking at it is how much restructure capacity (plus rollover cap) Loomis left unused to show how we weren’t as aggressive this year. To figure the restructure capacity, I’m only looking at salaries that are $2m+ plus any roster bonuses that are $1m+, and I’m assuming a $1m minimum salary to be close enough to the real number (for any salary restructures).

2021: $1.0m
2022: $2.4m
2023: $5.0m
2024: $15.2m

Even though only about $3m of the 2024 number is rollover cap, we will have about $12m less in dead cap in future years due to leaving some restructuring capacity untouched.

Appreciate the supporting Data @Rouxble. I expect them to make similiar decisions this year, if they choose to leave Carr's contract untouched that will be the biggest confirmation that they've changed course. The deal they had on the table to trade back w/ the Rams is another example of them willing to do things differently and acquire more picks. At this rate rehauling the roster will be a 2 year feat but you can almost guarantee names like Davis, Mathieu, Jordan, and Carr likely won't be on this team to start 2026.

Believing you can still be competitive vs believing you have a window are two different philosophies. Having operated in the latter for many years, the former has very subtle differences in how they handle player acquisition. We def scaled back in 2024.

 

[Elvis]

Which defeats the whole purpose of rebuilding. You do that if your only purpose is getting rid of Carr. Everything else is fine but him. It's not realistic.

Everything else is NOT fine. In fact Carr's not even that much of a problem when you consider we are rebuilding no matter what anyone says. He's an obstacle for getting the cap right and getting younger. There are others as well, but he is the biggest one, or should I say his contract is the biggest one. He's too expensive for a bridge QB and will be near retirement by the time we're good again.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I know Loomis said that and did a few things in the right direction, but he paired that with doing some bad things to pay for his past bad things. So yes, there was a pivot to some degree. That pivot has a long turn around time though and I believe, and obviously you don't agree, that they need to rip the bandaid off like the Falcons, Bucs and Broncos did for a year and get it cleared out.

I have no issues with Demario as a player, but he took a pay cut in 2024 to get guaranteed money in 2025 and we'll still have him on the books for $8.7 million in 2026 when his contract voids.

I don't disagree that they need to make a move, I just think the circumstances to which those teams were able to do it are vastly different than our circumstance. I could be wrong. For instance, the first year of Paytons Broncos tenure he was able sign some big time FA's to bolster the team. Their cap wasn't hamstrung in the way that ours is, and thus Payton had more to work w/. The Bucs managed to do it while getting Mayfield on a cheap contract, and the Falcons again while aging didn't have the cap restraints.

To do what you want to do, ie rip the bandaid off, requires more flexibility than we have to do it properly. So it's going to be a 2 year process instead of a 1 year thing. The bulk of it will have to come from the draft this year, which we've added picks. You can potentially add about 12-14 new players this year via draft and FA. You can do it again in 2025. Giving you about 30 new players that will not have been on the roster at the end of 2024.

For comparisons sake, Payton, in 2006, was able to bring in that many players in year 1. That's just isn't possible for no matter who the coach is in 2025. So that's why I say I'm not against ripping the band-aid off, it's just that doing it in these circumstance will probably ellicit a lot of unecessary bleeding.

 

[Elvis]

Minshew went 2-7 as a starter threw 9 TDs and 10 Interceptions with the raiders this year
Carr is 14-13 as a starter with 40TDs and 13 Ints as a Saint


Cutting Carr to sign Minshew is about the dumbest thing a GM could do and would merit getting himself fired.

It's 2-7 Minshew and 5-5 Carr in 2024. You skewed the numbers by showing Minshew's 2024 year with the Raiders and Carr's entire time with us. And the Raiders finished one game worse than us and are picking 3 spots ahead of us in the draft. Neither will win for you, one is far cheaper.

 

[Elvis]

I don't disagree that they need to make a move, I just think the circumstances to which those teams were able to do it are vastly different than our circumstance. I could be wrong. For instance, the first year of Paytons Broncos tenure he was able sign some big time FA's to bolster the team. Their cap wasn't hamstrung in the way that ours is, and thus Payton had more to work w/. The Bucs managed to do it while getting Mayfield on a cheap contract, and the Falcons again while aging didn't have the cap restraints.

To do what you want to do, ie rip the bandaid off, requires more flexibility than we have to do it properly. So it's going to be a 2 year process instead of a 1 year thing. The bulk of it will have to come from the draft this year, which we've added picks. You can potentially add about 12-14 new players this year via draft and FA. You can do it again in 2025. Giving you about 30 new players that will not have been on the roster at the end of 2024.

For comparisons sake, Payton, in 2006, was able to bring in that many players in year 1. That's just isn't possible for no matter who the coach is in 2025. So that's why I say I'm not against ripping the band-aid off, it's just that doing it in these circumstance will probably ellicit a lot of unecessary bleeding.

Ok, we're mostly in agreement finally. I just don't believe the bleeding is unnecessary. We need a good old fashion blood letting to cure what ails this team. We need to rid the team of void years and future dead money so we can be nimble when changing directions. That wasn't so important when we were winning, but it's essential now that we've missed the playoffs 4 years in a row and getting worse.

 

[Saints fan]

I'd cut him and just eat it the money.... We aren't winning anything with him. And has he been healthy for a full season that's he's in NOLA?

This isn't a leader or a team first guy.. .. Tom Brady took a paycut while in New England and I know darn well that what TB12 had on tape was better.

 

[SWJJ]

It's 2-7 Minshew and 5-5 Carr in 2024. You skewed the numbers by showing Minshew's 2024 year with the Raiders and Carr's entire time with us. And the Raiders finished one game worse than us and are picking 3 spots ahead of us in the draft. Neither will win for you, one is far cheaper.

This is ridiculous.

One guy wins .222 % and the other guy win .500% behind a much-maligned offensive line,

One dude throws more ints than TD and the other guy throws 3 TD for every Int. (15 TDs 5Ints in 2024)

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Ok, we're mostly in agreement finally. I just don't believe the bleeding is unnecessary. We need a good old fashion blood letting to cure what ails this team. We need to rid the team of void years and future dead money so we can be nimble when changing directions. That wasn't so important when we were winning, but it's essential now that we've missed the playoffs 4 years in a row and getting worse.

Chuckles, fair enough.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'd cut him and just eat it the money.... We aren't winning anything with him. And has he been healthy for a full season that's he's in NOLA?

This isn't a leader or a team first guy.. .. Tom Brady took a paycut while in New England and I know darn well that what TB12 had on tape was better.

Idk, the data suggest that we won more w/ Carr than without. He was also a top 8 QB in QBR while he played, IMHO it makes more sense to just keep him for one more year w/ out touching his contract, while Developing Rattler to take over either at some point in 2025 or immediately in 2026.

 

[UFCSaint]

I will never fault a player for taking as much money for as long as possible. It’s not their fault the team paid them the contracts that they did, and the teams will only look out for the team’s interest, so why shouldn’t the player only look out for their own?

Yep. Same way with any large company you work for. Despite the garbage they spew...you are a number to them.

 

[Elvis]

This is ridiculous.

One guy wins .222 % and the other guy win .500% behind a much-maligned offensive line,

One dude throws more ints than TD and the other guy throws 3 TD for every Int. (15 TDs 5Ints in 2024)

If the difference in outcome is negligible, why spend the big money on the QB while there are so many other holes? Fix the holes and play the cheaper, younger QB to see if he can develop. I'm not saying Minshew either, I'm just saying a cheaper, younger QB. We don't have to look far. We have one on the roster.

 

[Stalwart385]

It's unrealistic to expect Carr to be cut. Everyone crying for it might as well cry that they need to win the lotto. It's making this place insufferable, get real.

 

[Saints fan]

Idk, the data suggest that we won more w/ Carr than without. He was also a top 8 QB in QBR while he played, IMHO it makes more sense to just keep him for one more year w/ out touching his contract, while Developing Rattler to take over either at some point in 2025 or immediately in 2026.

I'd be fine with not touching his contract, getting through next season and moving on.. If we are restructuring to keep him here longer, then absolutely not. Now, if he wanted to take a decrease in salary so that we could get a good OLine, get some WRs, maybe some help on Defense.. then sure restructure his contract.

I agree with continuing to develop Rattler to potentially take over after next season.

 

[HouseCall]

Joe Mixon took a pay cut, after a down year in 2022. Plus, he’s a RB, who took the pay cut after his 6th season, also after signing a 4 year $48 million dollar contract initially. I mean, RBs have a shorter shelf life, and they don’t see contracts the size that QBs do.

Poor decision on Mixon’s part. His team-friendly decision to reduce a contractually agreed upon compensation led to a 9-8 season with no playoffs for the Bengals in 2023 and then being traded the following season.

I’ll also add that Carr didn’t have a down year. He was injured a couple of times, but his stats were really good.