Bill Vinovich (1 Viewer)

[2009ring]

Because of the horrible PI no-call, I feel like this missed penalty is way under-discussed. Which is probably the way the league likes it. As terrible as the no call PI was, having two terrible no calls against one team one game changing plays would be even more obvious there was an agenda

 

[Bill]

Because of the horrible PI no-call, I feel like this missed penalty is way under-discussed. Which is probably the way the league likes it. As terrible as the no call PI was, having two terrible no calls against one team one game changing plays would be even more obvious there was an agenda

I'm with you. Those were two horrible calls. There's no doubt that when the NFL reviewed the way this game was officiated (particularly at the end) they realized that the appearance would be one of favoritism being shown due to these crucial non-calls.

But the way I see it, of all the games each year the ones that generally are under-officiated are the postseason games. The NFL would much prefer that a playoff contest is decided by the performance of the two teams rather than making possibly marginal calls that could ultimately decide the outcome.

In fact this is one reason why those two no-calls are easier for me to deal with. There is obviously a mandate by the NFL to try their best to let the teams play without 'ref interference' for determining a winner. If it was the other way around and the officials were being asked to look for every possible foul, then there would be far more questioning of the league being unbiased... especially if one team happened to be very undisciplined that day.

Both the OFI against Lewis & the face whack on Drew were egregious penalties that were of such severity that these should have been called. Sadly these were not; to our demise. But as I recall there were fouls that the Saints players made during the game which were not called as well. This just proves that the officials were trying their best to stay out of the game, particularly in the latter moments when the impact of penalties would likely have had a greater impact on the outcome. However with the officials remaining silent, it basically had the same effect to the outcome that the NFL obviously tries to avoid.

Any post-game review by the league with the officials would likely have been geared toward having the proper degree of officiating in order to avoid the same type of criticism among all of the fan bases that this one still has to this day. Every NFL fan around the country knows the Saints got hosed with those 'no-calls'. But this is the only fan base that still can't understand why the officials were trying not to be 'flag-happy' for an NFC Championship game. It's a whole lot easier just to vilify the captain of that crew then to realize that those officials screwed up in not seeing/calling some very critical fouls when it affected the Saints the most.

 

[sfidc3]

Any post-game review by the league with the officials would likely have been geared toward having the proper degree of officiating in order to avoid the same type of criticism among all of the fan bases that this one still has to this day. Every NFL fan around the country knows the Saints got hosed with those 'no-calls'. But this is the only fan base that still can't understand why the officials were trying not to be 'flag-happy' for an NFC Championship game. It's a whole lot easier just to vilify the captain of that crew then to realize that those officials screwed up in not seeing/calling some very critical fouls when it affected the Saints the most.

I've been watching football for 50 years. I can't remember a more obvious purposely missed call with the stakes as high as they were. Those officials were either paid or threatened, you can't tell me what I didn't see with my own eyes....and the no-calls after that play very much confirm that line of thinking....

 

[Bill]

I've been watching football for 50 years. I can't remember a more obvious purposely missed call with the stakes as high as they were. Those officials were either paid or threatened, you can't tell me what I didn't see with my own eyes....and the no-calls after that play very much confirm that line of thinking....

Sure I can.

One official missed the call because he was in the wrong position to make the call and called off the official who was in position to make the call. Those are facts.

The latter missed call was due to the back judge looking in a different direction at the moment Drew's facemask was hit. Review the videos. I did.

These were bad mistakes. It happens. You just have to learn to accept it as you would be able to do if it had happened to a different team.

 

[saintfan1972]

As much as everyone rags on Vinovich, and I've done it plenty myself, the no-call was not on him. I've never seen a head ref call pass interference. The two refs on the sidelines, on the other hand, should be in jail. Especially the old guy, Cavaleto or whatever his name is, who waved off the black ref as he was reaching for his flag.

I've said this since it happened. Nobody listens. It was a bad no call but no matter how much you try to teach people on here how it's done nobody listens. Save your fingers and move on.

 

[Saintsfolife]

Ha more like Bill Vinobi***

 

[SweetT]

I'm with you. Those were two horrible calls. There's no doubt that when the NFL reviewed the way this game was officiated (particularly at the end) they realized that the appearance would be one of favoritism being shown due to these crucial non-calls.

But the way I see it, of all the games each year the ones that generally are under-officiated are the postseason games. The NFL would much prefer that a playoff contest is decided by the performance of the two teams rather than making possibly marginal calls that could ultimately decide the outcome.

In fact this is one reason why those two no-calls are easier for me to deal with. There is obviously a mandate by the NFL to try their best to let the teams play without 'ref interference' for determining a winner. If it was the other way around and the officials were being asked to look for every possible foul, then there would be far more questioning of the league being unbiased... especially if one team happened to be very undisciplined that day.

Both the OFI against Lewis & the face whack on Drew were egregious penalties that were of such severity that these should have been called. Sadly these were not; to our demise. But as I recall there were fouls that the Saints players made during the game which were not called as well. This just proves that the officials were trying their best to stay out of the game, particularly in the latter moments when the impact of penalties would likely have had a greater impact on the outcome. However with the officials remaining silent, it basically had the same effect to the outcome that the NFL obviously tries to avoid.

Any post-game review by the league with the officials would likely have been geared toward having the proper degree of officiating in order to avoid the same type of criticism among all of the fan bases that this one still has to this day. Every NFL fan around the country knows the Saints got hosed with those 'no-calls'. But this is the only fan base that still can't understand why the officials were trying not to be 'flag-happy' for an NFC Championship game. It's a whole lot easier just to vilify the captain of that crew then to realize that those officials screwed up in not seeing/calling some very critical fouls when it affected the Saints the most.

It was the most blatant PI in the history of the NFL. Regardless of what YOU say or THINK cannot justify that screw job. TLL went into a helicopter spin. Save the “officials were trying to stay out of it” madness. Sure, refs tend to call playoff games a bit looser than the regular season, but that call NEEDS and SHOULD be called 100% of the time regardless of what game it is. You say it’s nothing, I say screw job. Officials can sway or influence outcomes. That is 100% fact. It happens in all sports. That Hockey official just last year was caught saying how he was calling against a certain team, while on a hot mic.

NHL bans referee caught ordering a makeup call against Predators over hot mic | Sporting News

What Tim Peel said that got him fired

www.google.com

NSWF in that link. He instantly went for a screw job in the beginning portion of the match to set the tone. Now, tell me that the NFL officials are squeaky clean? Are they more righteous than Hockey refs? And don’t even get me started on NBA refs.

 

[saintfan1972]

It was the most blatant PI in the history of the NFL. Regardless of what YOU say or THINK cannot justify that screw job. TLL went into a helicopter spin. Save the “officials were trying to stay out of it” madness. Sure, refs tend to call playoff games a bit looser than the regular season, but that call NEEDS and SHOULD be called 100% of the time regardless of what game it is. You say it’s nothing, I say screw job. Officials can sway or influence outcomes. That is 100% fact. It happens in all sports. That Hockey official just last year was caught saying how he was calling against a certain team, while on a hot mic.

NHL bans referee caught ordering a makeup call against Predators over hot mic | Sporting News

What Tim Peel said that got him fired

www.google.com

NSWF in that link. He instantly went for a screw job in the beginning portion of the match to set the tone. Now, tell me that the NFL officials are squeaky clean? Are they more righteous than Hockey refs? And don’t even get me started on NBA refs.

Bill wasn't saying it shouldn't have been called. If you read closely you will see he says it was a foul. Is there bad officials and maybe some get paid to blow calls. I'm sure there is. What he was saying is playoff games in the NFL aren't officiated the way regular season games are. But like he said that shouldve been called.
But if people are going to point fingers at officials, point them at the right person. That call is not and will never be the head referees call. Period. End of story. Won't happen. So blame the 2 guys that didn't call it. Fine. But it wasn't Vinovichs fault. He may have missed the hit on Drew. That is his call. But put the blame where it goes.
And again, playoff games are called different. They just are.
1 more thing. We shouldn't have blown a big lead in that game to put ourselves in that position also.

 

[SweetT]

Bill wasn't saying it shouldn't have been called. If you read closely you will see he says it was a foul. Is there bad officials and maybe some get paid to blow calls. I'm sure there is. What he was saying is playoff games in the NFL aren't officiated the way regular season games are. But like he said that shouldve been called.
But if people are going to point fingers at officials, point them at the right person. That call is not and will never be the head referees call. Period. End of story. Won't happen. So blame the 2 guys that didn't call it. Fine. But it wasn't Vinovichs fault. He may have missed the hit on Drew. That is his call. But put the blame where it goes.
And again, playoff games are called different. They just are.
1 more thing. We shouldn't have blown a big lead in that game to put ourselves in that position also.

And like I said, yes playoff games are called looser than regular season games. Regardless of who’s call it was, at some point “good will” should have creeped into Bill’s mind, that a team was getting blatantly screwed. He could’ve got together with the other officials and discussed it, until they got it right. There’s no rule against officials getting together to make a good/bad judgment call. If someone was an official on that field, at that moment, they are ALL to blame. If he’s the head official, how his crew performs, falls at his feet. I run a crew of 160 people. What they do and how they perform is on me. You think my regional manager wants to hear “yeah, that was someone else, not me”? It’s in my handbook, I am reliable for what my crew does. Same should go for those officials.

 

[saintfan1972]

And like I said, yes playoff games are called looser than regular season games. Regardless of who’s call it was, at some point “good will” should have creeped into Bill’s mind, that a team was getting blatantly screwed. He could’ve got together with the other officials and discussed it, until they got it right. There’s no rule against officials getting together to make a good/bad judgment call. If someone was an official on that field, at that moment, they are ALL to blame. If he’s the head official, how his crew performs, falls at his feet. I run a crew of 160 people. What they do and how they perform is on me. You think my regional manager wants to hear “yeah, that was someone else, not me”? It’s in my handbook, I am reliable for what my crew does. Same should go for those officials.

So the head ref is supposed to run down the field and tell the guys to throw a flag on a play he didn't see. Ok. And the other officials on the other side of the field are to blame. Ok.
When I officiated high school a official on the crew I was on missed a call. I can't see what he's supposed to be watching and what I'm supposed to be watching at the same time. So even though the whole crew gets blamed it's still on the guy that didn't throw the flag.
So at work you are supposed to fix an issue you didn't know was on issue until later after the fact. Glad I'm not you.

 

[SweetT]

So the head ref is supposed to run down the field and tell the guys to throw a flag on a play he didn't see. Ok. And the other officials on the other side of the field are to blame. Ok.
When I officiated high school a official on the crew I was on missed a call. I can't see what he's supposed to be watching and what I'm supposed to be watching at the same time. So even though the whole crew gets blamed it's still on the guy that didn't throw the flag.
So at work you are supposed to fix an issue you didn't know was on issue until later after the fact. Glad I'm not you.

See that guy in the white hat? He supposedly “did not see the play”. That video shows he is indeed watching it.

 

[dvdman]

Just a footnote to my original post. For those who believe it was not
Vinovich’s responsibility to throw the flag well as someone already noted. Any official is allowed to throw a flag if they see a foul take place. In addition the flag can be thrown at any time after the foul has occurred as long as the next play has not taken place. Every official on the field saw the replay of it on the giant Dome screens and could could and should have thrown a flag right there before the next play. That is what so disturbing and why you will never ever make me believe there was not some sort of conspiracy that took place on that play……so sad and why the NFL officials that day ruined their credibility in my and all Saints fans minds.

 

[Bill]

See that guy in the white hat? He supposedly “did not see the play”. That video shows he is indeed watching it.

And since you have us looking at 'that guy in the white hat', look closely at the visual angle he has of that play. Do you think he can tell definitively how close/far the ball was from the moment of impact when you consider the actual speed of that play? Or should he have repeatedly questioned the call of other senior officials who were in better positions to make the best judgment for that play? Vinovich did the only thing he was in position to do at the time.

Professional football happens very quickly, whether you are participating or only watching the action. The worse thing any official can do is to be wishy-washy in his judgments. I am not trying to clear these referees of the poor decisions that they made, and I'm also not inferring that Cavaletto didn't have some personal bias in wanting the Rams to come out on top. What I'm merely saying is that the calls (or lack thereof) made in the waning moments of that game wasn't some pregame mandate by Goodell, the NFL, or even these particular officials who were chosen to oversee that championship game. No plan was devised to ensure a Saints loss. It was simply one very strong-willed official who made a very poor judgment and didn't want anyone challenging his right to make that call... which he described to another official as being "bang-bang" in nature.

And even if Caveletto was some rogue referee, why would this guy who was supposedly so bent on eliminating the Saints (in an effort to promote the Rams), waiting until they were inside of 2 minutes and the Saints were deep inside the redzone before he would choose to use his 'power' to stop the Saints from scoring even though his non-call wasn't a guarantee that the Saints weren't going to score??? Wouldn't he instead have been looking for opportunities to shut down the Saints' drive long before they got that close to scoring???

If it was Cavaletto's (or anyone's) intention to find a way to eliminate the Saints in that game, the Saints would never have been in the position to make the potential game winning score on that fateful drive so late in that game. Instead, faux calls throughout the game would have put it far out of reach long before that drive.

Bill Vinovich is being held over the fire simply because he was on record as the head official for that crew. But none of these guys were the regular officials that Vinovich worked with during the season. As an NFL 'dream team' of referees he certainly considered all of these guys to be competent enough to make the correct calls throughout the game. Remember that the rule of reviewing such calls had not even come into existence at that time, so it was not an option for him to check the replay. (Of course the league has since scrapped that idea.) No, I'm sure that Bill Vinovich would never want to come back to New Orleans to officiate an NFL game. But it's not because he thinks he did something wrong. It is because he realizes that there is nothing that can be done to help all the conspiracy crazed fans see the light of what really happened in the closing moments of that emotionally crushing game.

 

[saintfan1972]

See that guy in the white hat? He supposedly “did not see the play”. That video shows he is indeed watching it.

Yoube the white hat in a game and you go make that call, you won't be officiating long. So for everyone that thinks he should've run 20 yards down the field and drop a flag, you are crazy as hell. Won't happen.

Plus it's been 3 freakin years. Get over it.

 

[saintfan1972]

I have a challenge for anyone that wants to try. Go through NFL videos and replays and find me one that shows any official coming across the field or a white hat leaving his position to go to another and throw his flag. And I'm not talking about when a flag is thrown and they come together and talk about it. I'm talking about a play with no flag thrown and another official comes and throws his flag "out of position".

Good Luck on your journey.