Britney Griner released 12-08-2022 (30 Viewers)

[Hoodoo]

It's.. odd. Odd enough with the way it was handled that it opens the door for a reasonable amount of skepticism as to what exactly was going on there.



The idea of course would be that the administration is lying and that there was in fact a choice available for either Griner or Whelan and someone screwed up or something and told that story to NBC instead of the administration's preferred version which is that it was a choice between Griner or no one.

It certainly could have been an error on the reporter's part or a misunderstanding between the reporter and the senior U.S. official.. but I would say that considering the passage in question would easily be the most ripe for criticism portion of the story for the administration if it were in fact the true version of things.. I don't think it's crazy, considering the way it was handled by NBC, to wonder if there's maybe more to it than just human error.

If I flip it around in my head and it was a Republican President and Fox News did something like this.. it'd be the same for me as this where I'd really just like to know more as to what exactly was going on there with the change and why there was no immediate acknowledgment when it pertained to such a crucial portion of the story.

*I haven't followed this today so maybe they've already addressed it

Two things that really stick for me: How do you make that kind of error and when you do make that error, why didn't the administration (especially the source) immediately correct them?

 

[DavidM]

Two things that really stick for me: How do you make that kind of error and when you do make that error, why didn't the administration (especially the source) immediately correct them?

So this is from a tweet cited by Fox News, reporting on the NBC mistake. It doesn't really read logically to me the way it's worded. It establishes the administration tried to secure the release of both Griner and Whelan, acknowledges that Russia is treating Whelan differently, but then asserts that the choice was either of them or none. Does that make sense or does it seem more likely it was somehow miscommunicated and the choice was, in fact, Griner or nobody?

NBC News issues correction after reporting Biden had a 'choice' between Griner or Whelan in prisoner swap

NBC News issued a correction after reporting President Biden could have received Paul Whelan, instead of Brittney Griner, in the controversial trade for Viktor Bout.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Dallas_Saint73]

So this is from a tweet cited by Fox News, reporting on the NBC mistake. It doesn't really read logically to me the way it's worded. It establishes the administration tried to secure the release of both Griner and Whelan, acknowledges that Russia is treating Whelan differently, but then asserts that the choice was either of them or none. Does that make sense or does it seem more likely it was somehow miscommunicated and the choice was, in fact, Griner or nobody?

NBC News issues correction after reporting Biden had a 'choice' between Griner or Whelan in prisoner swap

NBC News issued a correction after reporting President Biden could have received Paul Whelan, instead of Brittney Griner, in the controversial trade for Viktor Bout.

www.foxnews.com

Eh, they could "treat" him differently but still offer him up if they wanted to.

Russians, man. They don't make sense.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

If people had initially brought up Fogel instead of Whalen, it would have been a better argument.

Fogel's crime is similar to Griner's and he's been there longer.

I would like an answer as to why Fogel was not released with or even instead of Griner.

 

[Brandon13]

The possibility it's accurate seems remote, to me, unless there are corroborating reports from other sources about what is being claimed.

The president addressed this early in the story's news cycle, so I guess I'm seeing it as public record of the highest possible source, in this case, against a single alleged report (the screenshot you found appears sourced from the Today show), made at a time that isn't clear (before or after the president's remarks) and corrected - when?

This report from the AP, which is consistent with other reporting, doesn't give an indication the family believed Whelan was offered for release, or that he will be released anytime soon.

Family of American prisoner Paul Whelan backs Griner deal

The brother of an American detained in Russia since 2018 says that his family fears he will not be released for years.

apnews.com

The archived page I found that I linked to in a different post there, not the screenshot, was from NBC News and it had the updated language at around noon CST with no acknowledgment. I'm unsure of the time the change was actually made but the acknowledgment wasn't added until about 3:00 p.m.
...
I'm not intending to come off as believing the administration's lying here just based upon this thing and I absolutely agree that without the appearance of further corroborative reporting or evidence to indicate the original text was in fact correct there's not nearly enough there on its own to reasonably come to and stick with that conclusion.

Like I said, I just found it odd.. it's not 'oh sheet look at this they're forking lying to us' for me.. I'm just skeptical in general of politicians and politics as we all know there's a lot of lying and massaging of the truth that goes on all the time.. and this was a thing that when I kind of dug into it last night made me go "hmm, well that does sorta seem odd.. guess we'll just have to see if anything actually comes out" without actively looking at it as a big conspiracy.

 

[Brandon13]

The possibility it's accurate seems remote, to me, unless there are corroborating reports from other sources about what is being claimed.

The president addressed this early in the story's news cycle, so I guess I'm seeing it as public record of the highest possible source, in this case, against a single alleged report (the screenshot you found appears sourced from the Today show), made at a time that isn't clear (before or after the president's remarks) and corrected - when?

This report from the AP, which is consistent with other reporting, doesn't give an indication the family believed Whelan was offered for release, or that he will be released anytime soon.

Family of American prisoner Paul Whelan backs Griner deal

The brother of an American detained in Russia since 2018 says that his family fears he will not be released for years.

apnews.com

I think I actually typed out and then deleted a response to you that said I sort of leaned towards it being a mistake just based upon the original language being so clunky.

Edit: But perhaps could have been that the Russians were saying 'we won't give both of them to you in the trade like you want because his crime is much more severe than hers but we'll still let you have your pick of one of the two.'

 

[DavidM]

The archived page I found that I linked to in a different post there, not the screenshot, was from NBC News and it had the updated language at around noon CST with no acknowledgment. I'm unsure of the time the change was actually made but the acknowledgment wasn't added until about 3:00 p.m.
...
I'm not intending to come off as believing the administration's lying here just based upon this thing and I absolutely agree that without the appearance of further corroborative reporting or evidence to indicate the original text was in fact correct there's not nearly enough there on its own to reasonably come to and stick with that conclusion.

Like I said, I just found it odd.. it's not 'oh sheet look at this they're forking lying to us' for me.. I'm just skeptical in general of politicians and politics as we all know there's a lot of lying and massaging of the truth that goes on all the time.. and this was a thing that when I kind of dug into it last night made me go "hmm, well that does sorta seem odd.. guess we'll just have to see if anything actually comes out" without actively looking at it as a big conspiracy.

I get it and I appreciate your efforts to bring me up to speed.

I find myself feeling more so annoyed there is just always going to be some layer of doubt around every event. Media has to be pinpoint accurate when in reality, errors and corrections have always been part of the process. At least right now, the collective reporting on this story appears to portray one set of facts and then there is a conflicting NBC report that was corrected. And I'm guessing there are a number of people latching on to that who don't consider NBC and its various entities particularly credible anyway. It's all just very frustrating.

 

[El Caliente]

What they are saying in Russia.

 

[Hoodoo]

So this is from a tweet cited by Fox News, reporting on the NBC mistake. It doesn't really read logically to me the way it's worded. It establishes the administration tried to secure the release of both Griner and Whelan, acknowledges that Russia is treating Whelan differently, but then asserts that the choice was either of them or none. Does that make sense or does it seem more likely it was somehow miscommunicated and the choice was, in fact, Griner or nobody?

NBC News issues correction after reporting Biden had a 'choice' between Griner or Whelan in prisoner swap

NBC News issued a correction after reporting President Biden could have received Paul Whelan, instead of Brittney Griner, in the controversial trade for Viktor Bout.

www.foxnews.com

I just don't see how there is any miscommunication when they reported that Russia gave us a choice of one or the other. There's no logical way that I can think of to misunderstand that. Maybe the person communicating that was mistaken and told them the wrong thing, but again, why wasn't it corrected at the time it was reported?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

And millions of "Americans" will eat that up!!!

Here's the thing, their "decorated hero & spy" was a Reservist ADMIN TROOP that got kicked out with a bad conduct discharge after receiving an Article-15 (Non-Judicial Punishment). He failed to serve honorably as a %$# Reservist. Sad.

The 2x Olympic Gold Medalist, 2x World Cup Gold Medalist, Multi-National Multi-Champion "black lesbian drug addict" is more of a hero than him.

 

[DavidM]

I just don't see how there is any miscommunication when they reported that Russia gave us a choice of one or the other. There's no logical way that I can think of to misunderstand that. Maybe the person communicating that was mistaken and told them the wrong thing, but again, why wasn't it corrected at the time it was reported?

It could have been a miscommunication at any point, from an incorrectly written draft to an official who misspoke. There’s nothing difficult at all in imagining that because those kinds of mistakes do happen.

Of course, alternatively, anybody can choose to believe that NBC is now part of some coverup.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

It could have been a miscommunication at any point, from an incorrectly written draft to an official who misspoke. There’s nothing difficult at all in imagining that because those kinds of mistakes do happen.

Of course, alternatively, anybody can choose to believe that NBC is now part of some coverup.

Yeah, just last week I was on an email chain where a typo in a "white paper" almost (mis)informed a multi-million dollar decision and more than a few layoffs.

The paper had been proof read and vetted through "peer reviewed" before being sent up the chain. Passed upper managements sniff test, and was being used as decision criteria until some random PM on a call to work on the details of the resulting action caught the inconsistency between some of the data and the conclusions.. two incorrect words turned the whole thing on its side.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Yeah, just last week I was on an email chain where a typo in a "white paper" almost (mis)informed a multi-million dollar decision and more than a few layoffs.

The paper had been proof read and vetted through "peer reviewed" before being sent up the chain. Passed upper managements sniff test, and was being used as decision criteria until some random PM on a call to work on the details of the resulting action caught the inconsistency between some of the data and the conclusions.. two incorrect words turned the whole thing on its side.

Been there, done that. It's really hard after the third or fourth reading of something to force your brain not to assume what's coming next. Gotta have a real smart, uninvolved person waiting at the end to read the last version cold -- and it's gotta be someone with the stones to ask "stupid" questions and be willing to stand in front of the corporate train. Hard to do in these "right-sized" days.

 

[HburgSaints]

If people had initially brought up Fogel instead of Whalen, it would have been a better argument.

Fogel's crime is similar to Griner's and he's been there longer.

I would like an answer as to why Fogel was not released with or even instead of Griner.

you won’t get an answer. His name has barely been mentioned amongst people “who matter” is our society. His family begged the administration to label his arrest as wrongfully detained and they refused. The majority of the people beating the drum for Griner’s release probably never knew he existed. He needs to work on his jump shot for us to care

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

you won’t get an answer. His name has barely been mentioned amongst people “who matter” is our society. His family begged the administration to label his arrest as wrongfully detained and they refused. The majority of the people beating the drum for Griner’s release probably never knew he existed. He needs to work on his jump shot for us to care

Yea, not even the people who immediately brought up Whalen were thinking of Fogel for some reason.