COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (5 Viewers)

[travelingsaintsfan]

I continue to go to Wal-Mart and Harris Teeter down the road, about twice a week. I'm in eastern NC.

At Harris Teeter, the mask participation rate for customers is about 40%, staff about 80%. At Wal-Mart the mask participation rate for staff is very high and the store is taking a lot of precautions including aisle flow indicators to minimize people passing each other.

But as far as the customers go, the mask participation at Wal-Mart is definitely no more than 1 in 5 (20%) and probably half of that. And very people follow the aisle flow indicators.

We always try to go early in the morning to try to beat the idiots. There were not a lot of people at that time.

 

[B4YOU]

DC just extended the stay at home order until June 8th. At any point this can be pushed forward or back. DC is looking for 14 days of decline with an R0 < 1. Right now we are at 4 days of decline and R0 of 0.91. Retail selling educational supplies are allowed to open which is less than 40 businesses. This is going to be the test group for more re-openings. Amazon is now accepting SNAP for groceries.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

In this instance, you want to give your name and phone number because it stops the virus from spreading again which could either lead to you and/or your family getting the virus, or you being unable to get the food, medical, and other resources necessary for you to live.

This is basically where I was going with my earlier question. If I can understand how people are making their value judgements, I can figure out how to tailor my argument. My understanding of the situation is that my self interest and the community's interests are aligned to allow for greater contact tracing capabilities administered by the government, so long as appropriate protections are put in place and it's of a limited duration. So, I'd want to understand how other people who do not agree are framing it to see if I can make the case using their valuations.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Basically, Vitamin D regulates the immune system as I understand it. It basically keeps it in tune and more responsive to beginning infections. So basically it increases recognition of a pathogen and jumps on it faster if you have a good level of vitamin D in your system. If you don’t, then the immune system is slower to react and doesn’t react as well allowing the pathogen to multiply freely as the immune system slowly gets around to fighting the disease.
So by following this logic, as I understand it, is that I’d say Covid gets into your system, it starts to multiply. As there is no memory on how to fight this disease, the body has to start from scratch. Higher vitamin D will allow the immune system a quicker start to doing this and a quicker response once it figures it out. Someone lower in Vitamin D will allow Covid to continue to multiply and the infection to build up as the immune system trails behind.

Now I’m sure someone with more background can get much more into it, but that’s basically how it works.

I just prefer to get my Vitamin D outside.

But that's good information.

 

[Infoman]

In April Faucci says... Don't wear masks...

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

So did the "science on face masks" change in a couple months time?

March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.

www.cbsnews.com

Now, we all must wear a mask...

This is why I have trust issues with anything government appointment driven, and all things political in general. Seems like the science is being made to fit the politics, and not the other way around.

FWIW, I have been wearing a mask in public since March, and will continue to do so despite the flip flops. I have also learned to take all these "scientific facts" - "statistics modeling" - "expert medical recommendations" with a grain of salt at this point... all of it has been wrong, way off. or contradictory at some level, and at some point up to now.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I continue to go to Wal-Mart and Harris Teeter down the road, about twice a week. I'm in eastern NC.

At Harris Teeter, the mask participation rate for customers is about 40%, staff about 80%. At Wal-Mart the mask participation rate for staff is very high and the store is taking a lot of precautions including aisle flow indicators to minimize people passing each other.

But as far as the customers go, the mask participation at Wal-Mart is definitely no more than 1 in 5 (20%) and probably half of that. And very people follow the aisle flow indicators.

As far as I know, in South Florida it isn't an option. At least in the burbs, you MUST have a mask to enter any store. So, I've seen pretty much 100% usage rates (I haven't stepped foot into walmart though), at Target, Publix, and a couple other places. It's also near 100% at work, minus a few people.

I see a few noses popped out, some temporary, some the whole time.

I don't see a lot of gloves, other than some staff. I think that's a reasonable approach, so long as people are washing or have sanitizer on them.

 

[Taurus]

In April Faucci says... Don't wear masks...

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

So did the "science on face masks" change in a couple months time?

March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.

www.cbsnews.com

Now, we all must wear a mask...

This is why I have trust issues with anything government appointment driven, and all things political in general. Seems like the science is being made to fit the politics, and not the other way around.

FWIW, I have been wearing a mask in public since March, and will continue to do so despite the flip flops.

At the time, the concern was how to prevent yourself from contracting the Coronavirus. Masks don't help with that...at least, not your basic ones. Fauci was correct on that, but he should have elaborated that most anything in front of your face will slow/catch the infectious droplets from a sneeze or a cough, thus keeping others safer.

 

[Loose Cannon]

In April Faucci says... Don't wear masks...

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

So did the "science on face masks" change in a couple months time?

March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.

www.cbsnews.com

Now, we all must wear a mask...

This is why I have trust issues with anything government appointment driven, and all things political in general. Seems like the science is being made to fit the politics, and not the other way around.

FWIW, I have been wearing a mask in public since March, and will continue to do so despite the flip flops. I have also learned to take all these "scientific facts" - "statistics modeling" - "expert medical recommendations" with a grain of salt at this point... all of it has been wrong, way off. or contradictory at some point up to now.

It's pretty likely that he did this to prevent people from hoarding masks so that the healthcare systems could procure them first.

And I certainly don't think Fauci is the end-all be-all like others do, but this makes sense to me.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I take a vitamin D supplement too. I think it's mostly because I had high cholesterol that caused a blockage when I was 37 and there are studies that show that heart issues are somehow linked to Vitamin D deficiency. I tend to agree that it could just be correlation and not causation, but it doesn't cost much so I figure it's worth not taking the chance.

Yeah, it's $5 for 100 of the high potency ones. My wife has had herself on C, D, and Zinc since this thing started, and me on C and D as I already took a workout recovery supplement with a big amount of Zinc.

I spend more on hand sanitizer, seems like a reasonable expense to me. Basically zero risk unless you count $5 every 50 days, and a reasonably high potential reward.

 

[B4YOU]

Just gonna leave this here. I don't know, who the fork knows anymore.

The narrative from some has been that Covid-19 really only affects the elderly and people with comorbites. I've seen parents with masks on walking around with small kids with no masks. Fauci was warning about assuming Covid-19 had minimal impact on kids in an exchange with Sen. Rand Paul yesterday.

 

[Saint_Ward]

In April Faucci says... Don't wear masks...

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

So did the "science on face masks" change in a couple months time?

March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19

In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.

www.cbsnews.com

Now, we all must wear a mask...

This is why I have trust issues with anything government appointment driven, and all things political in general. Seems like the science is being made to fit the politics, and not the other way around.

FWIW, I have been wearing a mask in public since March, and will continue to do so despite the flip flops.

A few things.

1. Primarily, health care facilities were (still are?) facing a shortage of masks, so he didn't want folks gobbling up all the masks out there. EDIT. He flat out says it, but he's saying people who are sick, should absolutely be in masks, and if everyone buys them up, the sick, and those caring for the sick can't get them.

"It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it," Fauci said.

2. It's been a hotly debated thing. Most masks don't offer the type of protection we think they will. Me wearing a surgical style mask only protects me a bit, but really protects others. People who don't know how to wear a mask properly, or are always touching it, their face, moving it, and don't keep their hands clean, are adding more of a touching transmission risk. The reason why we can't just put the sick in masks and those caring for them in masks, is that it can be transmitted before symptoms show. So, what Fauci recommended, really wasn't feasable. I mean, at a minimum, those that were sick should wear masks, but the day or two before.. you'd have no idea.

3. I think as more information comes out that droplets you touch maybe being less of a problem and virus you inhale through droplets or aerosol virus, puts more weight on mask usage.

4. I think his answer was more nuanced that wearing a mask will give the average American a sense of safety that would encourage them to do other less safe things, and basically make the added protection of the mask Moot.

5. Look at Asia. They've been using masks for over a decade with good success. I always thought Fauci was wrong for his stance on masks. A lot of medical professionals get too purist about masks.. that the only way to get real protection is an N95 mask, fitted properly, used correctly, handled correctly (which is not at all...). Protection, to them, means near 100%. Not minimize risk.

 

[Infoman]

It's pretty likely that he did this to prevent people from hoarding masks so that the healthcare systems could procure them first.

And I certainly don't think Fauci is the end-all be-all like others do, but this makes sense to me.

Yeah, I'll buy that... seems a more logical reason for the complete 180 he's taken at this point. Still... If the comment was deliberate to prevent people from hoarding masks... and not based in scientific fact at the time... then it was by definition... a openly exhibited Lie by the "go to guy" on this... hence my trust issues.

 

[St. Widge]

To get to that point of rational behavior, they have to accept the underlying premise(s). Here, a significant percentage thinks the virus is being substantially "over-hyped" and that even getting infected is likely to be little more than an inconvenience. I think a majority are serious about about, but it isn't a big majority.

I agree. And, I think that's where leadership comes in. Unfortunately some leadership is down playing the pandemic for whatever reason.

 

[St. Widge]

It's pretty likely that he did this to prevent people from hoarding masks so that the healthcare systems could procure them first.

And I certainly don't think Fauci is the end-all be-all like others do, but this makes sense to me.

I think this is true. And the statement that the general public should not wear masks was always followed with the statement that N95 and medical masks should be saved for use by healthcare professionals. So, it's not like he said that they don't help stop the virus, he just said that they should be saved for those most at risk.

 

[St. Widge]

Yeah, I'll buy that... seems a more logical reason for the complete 180 he's taken at this point. Still... If the comment was deliberate to prevent people from hoarding masks... and not based in scientifically based in fact at the time... then it was by definition... a openly exhibited Lie by the "go to guy" on this... hence my trust issues.

It wasn't a flip flop on the science. He never said that an N95 or medical mask would not protect you to some extent. What he said is they should be saved for medical professionals. He flip flopped on the policy of who should wear the masks, not the science of whether they help or not. So, if people were paying attention to what he actually said it was pretty easy to understand what he was saying.