Demanding, Detailed, Accountable Klint Kubiak is winning over coaches and players alike (2 Viewers)

[srcampbell]

Possible, I foresee that happening and hopefully not for at least two years.

Me too. I’m already keeping a close eye on Janocko; specifically how he develops our young qbs.

 

[abnrgr]

If we field a formidable top 5 offense, Kubiak is gone. He would immediately check every head coaching box.

For us

 

[livefromDC]

My apologies. I drank a lot at the pool today. Yall enjoy

Yeah man, that pool water will mess you up. Best to stick to swimming in it.

jk

 

[DSnfla]

I will say that the one true benefit of Derek Carr coming here is it forced people to actually begin looking outside of the QB being the source of our problems. Coaching was at the top of the list and the way we came out in 2022 pointed to a lack of preparation. 2023 proved to be more of the same and the only QB that could fix that would be one that is bringing his own system with him like Manning, Brady, and Rodgers did. Our biggest investment went into something that, if we are being 100% honest, was among the least of our issues.

I'm really excited to see what Kubiak brings. I'm not going all in with the hype until I see what we actually do on the field.

I think there was a litany of things that happened It was not a far-fetched idea to keep the continuity with DA and even Pete, even though PC failed there were indications that he could be successful. The offense was successful in 2012 with PC calling plays and SP let Pete call plays even after he hurt his leg in 11. So there was a precedent. But PC was pretty lost without SP. One puzzling thing is for continuity's sake why did we move on from Nugent as OL coach? Roshar trained him and Roshar is a good OL coach. Also who's hire was Marrone? He was literally hired within a day of DA. Why not move Roshar from Run game coordinator/TE's back to OL coach? And them we lost Roshar to Tulane.
Another wrong move was going so hard after Watson that we lost Armstead. But make no mistake QB was a fairly big issue no matter how much you worship at the JW alter. PC was not good but you put a great QB with him and there's a big difference

 

[ndcc]

EJW: Great post.

In the Navy, we had rules outlined in the SORM: Standard Organization Regulations Manual.

Some didn’t fully acquaint themselves with it… and it showed. But those who embraced it were head and shoulders above the others.

With what seems to be taking shape, we should see serious improvement in all facets of the offense.

To say that this is encouraging… is an understatement!

Thanks again, EJW.

 

[Outbackjack]

I concur, there had to be a progression.

After Drew retired it was potentially the Saints not having enough weapons. The went in on Olave and tand hoped to get MT healthy along with a few other things like letting Winston be the guy but that failed. Then they looked at QB, brought in Carr...got Thomas healthy and while they improved on wins...the offense itself didn't take a leap. So eyes went to it's the scheme, and here we are.

Well said

 

[Saint Greg]

If we field a formidable top 5 offense, Kubiak is gone. He would immediately check every head coaching box.

That’s the thing about having a defensive head coach. If you get a good OC, he’s gone and you have to find another one. I have a feeling if we had that kind of success on offense and Kubiak were hired away, Janoko would be promoted.

 

[DavidM]

That’s the thing about having a defensive head coach. If you get a good OC, he’s gone and you have to find another one. I have a feeling if we had that kind of success on offense and Kubiak were hired away, Janoko would be promoted.

A big reason why I hoped it would have worked out with Carmichael. He never showed interest in a head coaching job so if he could have settled in successfully as OC here, it would have provided continuity. Oh well.

 

[Bill]

I’m sure that anything is possible regarding what a new coach can do for a franchise. But it’s still far too early to say for sure that he was the missing link to our once proud offense. Only time will tell.

 

[jahsoul357]

I think there was a litany of things that happened It was not a far-fetched idea to keep the continuity with DA and even Pete, even though PC failed there were indications that he could be successful. The offense was successful in 2012 with PC calling plays and SP let Pete call plays even after he hurt his leg in 11. So there was a precedent. But PC was pretty lost without SP. One puzzling thing is for continuity's sake why did we move on from Nugent as OL coach? Roshar trained him and Roshar is a good OL coach. Also who's hire was Marrone? He was literally hired within a day of DA. Why not move Roshar from Run game coordinator/TE's back to OL coach? And them we lost Roshar to Tulane.

We may need to start having an honest conversation about why we lost most of our games in 2012. It wasn't because of the defense...
-Washington: Offense
-Panthers: Offense
-Broncos: Offense
-49ers: Offense
-Falcons: Offense
-Giants: Offense

6 of our 9 losses could easily be put on our offense crapping the bed but we want to hold on to Pete doing a great job that season?

Another wrong move was going so hard after Watson that we lost Armstead. But make no mistake QB was a fairly big issue no matter how much you worship at the JW alter. PC was not good but you put a great QB with him and there's a big difference

Our QB issue was tied to 3 of the 4 things below that were our real issues in 2022-2023.
-Coaching
-O-line
-Run game
-D-line

The problem is, there are a lot of people that didn't look at anything outside of the quarterback for the issues we were facing before Carr. There were post and media articles about how Pete can now open up the playbook and how O-line issues were tied to Winston and Dalton not being able to call protections or as we heard all off-season "pre-snap." QB was only a "fairly big issue" for those that wanted to make it so. Those other 4 bullet points eclipsed anything related to the QB position.

On another note, I wonder how my boy is doing in Cleveland?



From March:

I don't think Allen has ever liked Winston, if we are being honest. Not going to lie, him going to Cleveland was unexpected, but from a coaching standpoint, it's a great fit. Stefanski's scheme, being a Shanahan-Kubiak guy, is play-action and bootleg heavy, and there are very few QBs, if any, that is better than Winston at running play-action. Ken Dorsey's offensive philosophy (Erhardt-Perkins) is very similar, conceptually, to the offense that Jimbo Fisher ran at FSU/TAMU. From a standpoint of scheme fit, probably couldn't find one better. Situation tho.....eh...lol

Their training camp will be interesting...

 

[Get in the Carr]

We may need to start having an honest conversation about why we lost most of our games in 2012. It wasn't because of the defense...
-Washington: Offense
-Panthers: Offense
-Broncos: Offense
-49ers: Offense
-Falcons: Offense
-Giants: Offense

6 of our 9 losses could easily be put on our offense crapping the bed but we want to hold on to Pete doing a great job that season?


Our QB issue was tied to 3 of the 4 things below that were our real issues in 2022-2023.
-Coaching
-O-line
-Run game
-D-line

The problem is, there are a lot of people that didn't look at anything outside of the quarterback for the issues we were facing before Carr. There were post and media articles about how Pete can now open up the playbook and how O-line issues were tied to Winston and Dalton not being able to call protections or as we heard all off-season "pre-snap." QB was only a "fairly big issue" for those that wanted to make it so. Those other 4 bullet points eclipsed anything related to the QB position.

On another note, I wonder how my boy is doing in Cleveland?



From March:


Their training camp will be interesting...

It’s just practice. I doubt Winston didn’t know the Saints playbook. I think he was impulsive with his decision making when the bullets were flying. Don’t get me wrong, i think Carr had the same issue to an extent.

I remember when someone interviewed Derek’s brother on NFL Network before he was signed by the Saints. He said that Derek loved the idea that Pete lets’s the QB call the plays when waranted. I think JW and DC were both humbled by that experience. They have OC’s for a reason and they are no Drew Brees when it comes to checking to play based on what he sees. Drew Brees probably had late night studies of game film. DC and JW seemed to have the autonomy to basically call their own plays as they see fit. There was no standard operating procedure.

I think it was a glitch in PC’s system that eventually was corrected but too late. Bottom line is PC’s offensive gameplan was built for the next Drew Brees. DC is not Drew Brees but he is damn good QB and much better than JW when under pressure. I think JW would be great with one of the best offensive lines ever

The best QB’s are good decision makers when under stress. You have some Qb’s that get by on talent (Cam Newton). I think JW will thrive in a system that is structured and tailored for him. Saints offense was never that, so i wish him well in Cleveland.

I think JW and Carr are very similar in their approach of how they want an air raid type of offense. The opposing defenses were playing chess, while we were playing checkers IMO. The difference is Carr i think is just better at decision making under pressure.

Hopefully this new philosophy or system that Kubiak runs either limits the QB’s ability to check out of plays or enhances their ability to make a good decision.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think there was a litany of things that happened It was not a far-fetched idea to keep the continuity with DA and even Pete, even though PC failed there were indications that he could be successful. The offense was successful in 2012 with PC calling plays and SP let Pete call plays even after he hurt his leg in 11. So there was a precedent. But PC was pretty lost without SP. One puzzling thing is for continuity's sake why did we move on from Nugent as OL coach? Roshar trained him and Roshar is a good OL coach. Also who's hire was Marrone? He was literally hired within a day of DA. Why not move Roshar from Run game coordinator/TE's back to OL coach? And them we lost Roshar to Tulane.
Another wrong move was going so hard after Watson that we lost Armstead. But make no mistake QB was a fairly big issue no matter how much you worship at the JW alter. PC was not good but you put a great QB with him and there's a big difference

Just a note, Either Underhill or someone else mentioned that Armstead was willing to take less money if we could get Watson.

We were in QB purgatory at the time. There were rumors we tried to hire other coordinators but we kind of had to settle on Pete, likely because the job was unattractive to due to uncertainty at QB.

Kubiak himself said working with Carr was one of reasons he was excited to take job.

As I’ve been saying for a while DA wasn’t put in a great situation to start. Salary cap was meh, QB situation meh, he was asked to come immediately behind the most successful coach in Saints history, draft capital was meh, roster depth meh…and yet he took the job.

He was then asked to “hold” things in place for continuity sake. 48 laws of power suggest one of the worst things you can do, when having to replace someone popular, is follow in their path. Unfortunately for the 1st two years he was trying to keep together a culture and philosophy that predated him with band aids and duct tape.

Now, this isn’t to absolve him of the situation. He made bad decisions, and yet each year he’s made better ones. He’s showing growth as a HC, perhaps not as fast as some would like, but there’s growth.

 

[livefromDC]

Just a note, Either Underhill or someone else mentioned that Armstead was willing to take less money if we could get Watson.

We were in QB purgatory at the time. There were rumors we tried to hire other coordinators but we kind of had to settle on Pete, likely because the job was unattractive to due to uncertainty at QB.

Kubiak himself said working with Carr was one of reasons he was excited to take job.

As I’ve been saying for a while DA wasn’t put in a great situation to start. Salary cap was meh, QB situation meh, he was asked to come immediately behind the most successful coach in Saints history, draft capital was meh, roster depth meh…and yet he took the job.

He was then asked to “hold” things in place for continuity sake. 48 laws of power suggest one of the worst things you can do, when having to replace someone popular, is follow in their path. Unfortunately for the 1st two years he was trying to keep together a culture and philosophy that predated him with band aids and duct tape.

Now, this isn’t to absolve him of the situation. He made bad decisions, and yet each year he’s made better ones. He’s showing growth as a HC, perhaps not as fast as some would like, but there’s growth.

Yep. It's starting to sound like the amount of people who claimed they were at Woodstock or Marched with Dr. King,, everybody claims to have known that keeping Carmicheal was a bad idea. I'll admit it. I thought it was a good idea for continuity. It turned out to be wrong but can't blame DA for that.

 

[mr.t]

I will say that the one true benefit of Derek Carr coming here is it forced people to actually begin looking outside of the QB being the source of our problems. Coaching was at the top of the list and the way we came out in 2022 pointed to a lack of preparation. 2023 proved to be more of the same and the only QB that could fix that would be one that is bringing his own system with him like Manning, Brady, and Rodgers did. Our biggest investment went into something that, if we are being 100% honest, was among the least of our issues.

I'm really excited to see what Kubiak brings. I'm not going all in with the hype until I see what we actually do on the field.

But it may be a good start. I hope

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It’s just practice. I doubt Winston didn’t know the Saints playbook. I think he was impulsive with his decision making when the bullets were flying. Don’t get me wrong, i think Carr had the same issue to an extent.

I remember when someone interviewed Derek’s brother on NFL Network before he was signed by the Saints. He said that Derek loved the idea that Pete lets’s the QB call the plays when waranted. I think JW and DC were both humbled by that experience. They have OC’s for a reason and they are no Drew Brees when it comes to checking to play based on what he sees. Drew Brees probably had late night studies of game film. DC and JW seemed to have the autonomy to basically call their own plays as they see fit. There was no standard operating procedure.

I think it was a glitch in PC’s system that eventually was corrected but too late. Bottom line is PC’s offensive gameplan was built for the next Drew Brees. DC is not Drew Brees but he is damn good QB and much better than JW when under pressure. I think JW would be great with one of the best offensive lines ever

The best QB’s are good decision makers when under stress. You have some Qb’s that get by on talent (Cam Newton). I think JW will thrive in a system that is structured and tailored for him. Saints offense was never that, so i wish him well in Cleveland.

I think JW and Carr are very similar in their approach of how they want an air raid type of offense. The opposing defenses were playing chess, while we were playing checkers IMO. The difference is Carr i think is just better at decision making under pressure.

Hopefully this new philosophy or system that Kubiak runs either limits the QB’s ability to check out of plays or enhances their ability to make a good decision.

Honestly, I don’t think there was anything wrong w/ allowing Carr to make checks at the line or giving QBs responsibility.

Here’s what I think happened.

I think part of Pete’s resume, that qualified him as a playcaller was the 2012 season, when Payton was suspended. The Saints offense scored a ton of points and despite the pressure to “do your job”, the mantra at that time, Pete along w/ Drew and the offense were able to keep the ball rolling.

That ended up being an accolade for Pete, however there was never any data to compare what Carmichael looked like as a playcaller w/ out Brees.

Looking back, with that we know now, it’s obvious that Drew made Pete look far better than he truly was, similar to what he did with oline talent.

Pete knows this, it’s just the fans aren’t privy to it. What I saw with Pete/Carr was a guy calling plays and hoping the QB could check out of his bad decisions and make him look good. Pete was calling plays like Drew was back there.

Whenever there was pressure 3rd and 8 or more Pete would call plays that put ALL the pressure on Carr to make a play l, and in a round about way it was a transfer of energy In that he’d transfer the pressure he was feeling on to Carr.

The difference between 2012 and 2023 was Carr ain’t no Drew and he couldn’t mask Pete’s bad playcalling/bad Sea Payton impersonation