Demanding, Detailed, Accountable Klint Kubiak is winning over coaches and players alike (2 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

For everything that we think about these 2, we were 9-3 with Winston and Hill fielding weapons worst than what we’ve seen in years. If we had good coaching in 2022, we easily win the NFC South. Crap, if Winston or Taysom don’t get hurt, we probably fighting the 13 win Bucs for the division. Saying DA just needed a QB ignores what we did the year before with less talent all-around.

You’re also ignoring DA’s defense was apart of that staff and those wins. You don’t seriously think Payton goes 9-3 with Gary Gibbs or Rob Ryan in that same scenario do you?

 

[DSnfla]

For everything that we think about these 2, we were 9-3 with Winston and Hill fielding weapons worst than what we’ve seen in years. If we had good coaching in 2022, we easily win the NFC South. Crap, if Winston or Taysom don’t get hurt, we probably fighting the 13 win Bucs for the division. Saying DA just needed a QB ignores what we did the year before with less talent all-around.

Most of the problems post SP were on the O side of the ball , probably 80%, that included poor QB play. And yes coaching but way more offensive coaching. Of course the O would have been better with SP here. If we had better coaching and QB play on the O side of the ball in 22 we probably win 9 maybe 10 games. If we have better O coaching last yr even with DC having some issues at the beginning of the yr we probably win 10-11 games and the playoffs. Ultimately yes the HC is responsible for everything but where the better coaching was needed was on the O side from PC to Marrone to almost everyone on the O staff.

 

[KleinBottle]

Not to mention, all that "alpha" mentality stuff was debunked forever ago. The whole study is nonsense. I'm not sure why anyone even mentions it anymore.

I guess @Mr. Coach Klein wants proof that “alpha” pack mentality crap has been disproven. You’re on the same internet I’m on - Scientific American, Business Insider, and Cal-Berkeley are amongst a gaggle of publishers who have written about the long-debunked topic.

 

[jahsoul357]

You’re also ignoring DA’s defense was apart of that staff and those wins. You don’t seriously think Payton goes 9-3 with Gary Gibbs or Rob Ryan in that same scenario do you?

I get what you are saying about DA but we are talking about coaching the offense and our offense was better in 2021 than it was in 2022. We had DA's defense and a better team and still managed to lose more games going from 2021 to 2022. Now, I will say this, most will have a hard time winning with Ryan but I was always split on Gibbs. The 2007 and 2008 defenses did give up some points and were like "screw getting turnovers," (LOL), but dang if the offense didn't end up being the ones shooting themselves in the foot in a lot of those games.

Most of the problems post SP were on the O side of the ball , probably 80%, that included poor QB play. And yes coaching but way more offensive coaching. Of course the O would have been better with SP here. If we had better coaching and QB play on the O side of the ball in 22 we probably win 9 maybe 10 games. If we have better O coaching last yr even with DC having some issues at the beginning of the yr we probably win 10-11 games and the playoffs. Ultimately yes the HC is responsible for everything but where the better coaching was needed was on the O side from PC to Marrone to almost everyone on the O staff.

If we had better coaching in 2022, it would have shown with the quarterbacks. Everyone wants to say "but the QB," well until this year. And with better coaching, we win 10+ games in both 2022 and this past season. With that, I'm really hoping that this new staff isn't all talk and it translate to the field.

 

[Rexman100]

I mean I don't know about rare and sought after, I think it's a good thing to be competitive and balsy as a coach but there are plenty of "winning SB" coaches who were none of those things out front like Tony Dungy who fielded competitive teams.

Having a good QB aids in coaches winning. Payton found his in Drew, DA hasn't found one and it's made his career a bit more tough to date. Carr is on the cusp of proving he can be that guy.

Nah, Sean Payton won with a lesser team, so he had to be aggressive. That’s a sign of a great coach. Indy was far more polished at that time than we were.

 

[Lendro Furioso]

For everything that we think about these 2, we were 9-3 with Winston and Hill fielding weapons worst than what we’ve seen in years. If we had good coaching in 2022, we easily win the NFC South. Crap, if Winston or Taysom don’t get hurt, we probably fighting the 13 win Bucs for the division. Saying DA just needed a QB ignores what we did the year before with less talent all-around.

This. The only similarities between Sean Payton and Dennis Allen are that they are or were both Head Coaches of the New Orleans Saints.

Think about it like this: if DA were coaching the Falcons, or any other rival team, would you think that team had an edge against us? I think we all know the answer is no.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Nah, Sean Payton won with a lesser team, so he had to be aggressive. That’s a sign of a great coach. Indy was far more polished at that time than we were.

Nah, Sean Payton understood that momentum in a game that big was paramount. There was nothing lesser about that Saints squad. Perhaps undervalued, maybe under recognized due to market but as far as talent, go and compare both rosters, both teams were stacked. I understand how the "lesser tean" angle adds to the great coach narrative for Payton, which I'm not denying he is, but in this case...right bark, wrong tree.

 

[Rexman100]

Nah, Sean Payton understood that momentum in a game that big was paramount. There was nothing lesser about that Saints squad. Perhaps undervalued, maybe under recognized due to market but as far as talent, go and compare both rosters, both teams were stacked. I understand how the "lesser tean" angle adds to the great coach narrative for Payton, which I'm not denying he is, but in this case...right bark, wrong tree.

I was just saying he demonstrates qualities of a sought after coach. But even sought after coaches better keep the shelves full (@ QB) or they’ll find themselves like Belichick. It’s the players that make plays.

But to the point, we’re entering the “Sean or Drew” debate which is an enigma as to where one ends and the other begins.
Seans scheme was dominant for years and fun to watch. It scored 50 burgers all the time.. And when they were on, no one could stop them. Even the great TB through his hands up in primetime. And we can say for a fact it wasn’t Drew Bress’s scheme, It was more than just exposing the weak link in a defense, it was about rhythm, timing, and constant deception.

Then there’s Drew, the only guy that could run the system perfectly. We never even resembled the Drew Brees led teams under the other QBs, The other QBs made the system look clunky and disjointed and eventually overly simple where the run game became non existent.

Obviously we still couldn’t be running his system anymore considering he’s in Denver as well as his OC. So we did the best that we could and hired a staff that can implement the most popular system in the NFL. And they did just that, they hired all of the coaches to implement it, OC, Oline, Wr, Rb, Te. So we definitely took a step forward overall. But the days of prime time 50 burgers are in the rear view mirror. And it’ll be interesting to see if Bo Nix can be the guy in Denver for Sean. Selfishly I hope not and he ends along with Drew Brees, as the NFLs greatest Head Coach / QB combo to ever do it.

 

[sfidc3]

For everything that we think about these 2, we were 9-3 with Winston and Hill fielding weapons worst than what we’ve seen in years. If we had good coaching in 2022, we easily win the NFC South. Crap, if Winston or Taysom don’t get hurt, we probably fighting the 13 win Bucs for the division. Saying DA just needed a QB ignores what we did the year before with less talent all-around.

Yup.....at this point in time (and I don't see this changing but anything is possible) there is no comparison between the 2 coaches as far as HCing ability, one would have to be utterly delusional to think that.....All 32 teams in the NFL would choose CSP over DA.....part of what makes a good/great HC is the ability to attract quality assistant coaches.....and the job CSP did his last year here was COTY worthy.....

Nah, Sean Payton won with a lesser team, so he had to be aggressive. That’s a sign of a great coach. Indy was far more polished at that time than we were.

I really don't think we were the lesser team, you are talking like it was a 1 score razor tight win or something.....we won by 2 scores.....it wasn't a flashy win.....The onside kick was a gamble that worked out but, ironically?, I think CSP's restraint and ability to change from a more aggressive/wide open to more ball control offense in the 2nd half is what really won the game. Our strengths that year was the dominant offensive line, Brees decision making/accuracy and the ability to have balance.....CSP orchestrated that to perfection....

 

[Rexman100]

Yup.....at this point in time (and I don't see this changing but anything is possible) there is no comparison between the 2 coaches as far as HCing ability, one would have to be utterly delusional to think that.....All 32 teams in the NFL would choose CSP over DA.....part of what makes a good/great HC is the ability to attract quality assistant coaches.....and the job CSP did his last year here was COTY worthy.....



I really don't think we were the lesser team, you are talking like it was a 1 score razor tight win or something.....we won by 2 scores.....it wasn't a flashy win.....The onside kick was a gamble that worked out but, ironically?, I think CSP's restraint and ability to change from a more aggressive/wide open to more ball control offense in the 2nd half is what really won the game. Our strengths that year was the dominant offensive line, Brees decision making/accuracy and the ability to have balance.....CSP orchestrated that to perfection....

Perfection is the right word for sure. Don’t forget that we had a defensive TD that iced it on Mannings last drive. It was a back and forth game.

At that time, Indy was an AFC powerhouse that was an odds on favorite to be in the AFC champ game annually. We sort of came out of the woodwork. After 2006, we had a down year. So it’s not like we looked like an ascending team bound for the Super Bowl. Our end could’ve technically been vs Minn. In retrospect, It really seems like we were a team of destiny.

 

[sfidc3]

Perfection is the right word for sure. Don’t forget that we had a defensive TD that iced it on Mannings last drive. It was a back and forth game.

At that time, Indy was an AFC powerhouse that was an odds on favorite to be in the AFC champ game annually. We sort of came out of the woodwork. After 2006, we had a down year. So it’s not like we looked like an ascending team bound for the Super Bowl. Our end could’ve technically been vs Minn. In retrospect, It really seems like we were a team of destiny.

For one of those very few times in my life I really thought before the season started we were going to contend in 2009......and, for a change, I was right.....still it took a lot of luck, the way the ball bounces, turnovers, etc.....so I get the destiny slant....

Two friends I grew up with in NOLA thought i was nuts when I told them the Saints had a SB level team before the season started.....not so much after the season ended.....

 

[jahsoul357]

I was just saying he demonstrates qualities of a sought after coach. But even sought after coaches better keep the shelves full (@ QB) or they’ll find themselves like Belichick. It’s the players that make plays.

But to the point, we’re entering the “Sean or Drew” debate which is an enigma as to where one ends and the other begins.
Seans scheme was dominant for years and fun to watch. It scored 50 burgers all the time.. And when they were on, no one could stop them. Even the great TB through his hands up in primetime. And we can say for a fact it wasn’t Drew Bress’s scheme, It was more than just exposing the weak link in a defense, it was about rhythm, timing, and constant deception.

Then there’s Drew, the only guy that could run the system perfectly. We never even resembled the Drew Brees led teams under the other QBs, The other QBs made the system look clunky and disjointed and eventually overly simple where the run game became non existent.

Obviously we still couldn’t be running his system anymore considering he’s in Denver as well as his OC. So we did the best that we could and hired a staff that can implement the most popular system in the NFL. And they did just that, they hired all of the coaches to implement it, OC, Oline, Wr, Rb, Te. So we definitely took a step forward overall. But the days of prime time 50 burgers are in the rear view mirror. And it’ll be interesting to see if Bo Nix can be the guy in Denver for Sean. Selfishly I hope not and he ends along with Drew Brees, as the NFLs greatest Head Coach / QB combo to ever do it.

Something that's lost in here is it took Drew years to master that offense and he looked the exact same way at times as you described the other QBs made the system look but I will say that our run game became non existent because we didn't have a complimentary back for Kamara. We went from MI to Murray and then we let Murray leave and we had Tony Jones.

The system would still work if Pete knew how to actually build around the players the way that Sean did. We could see the evolution of our offense as Drew evolved. When age began to kick in, you can see another shift in the offense. When Teddy came in, it felt similar to what Drew did but CSP added intermediate and deep wrinkles. When Taysom came in, we saw zone read elements. When Jameis started, we didn't know what was going on (LOL), until around the 5th game and I realized we were using play-action and screens a lot more and was like "dangit, I think we are going back to the Prime Brees style offense;" then injuries. Siemian had to ride with the punches and I still feel sorry for Book til this day..lol.

I say all that to say this; CSP knew what players excelled in. If we went into 2022 running the same offense that was built in 2021, our team would have looked much different. If they didn't do an honest evaluation of Carr and figured he was just plug and play, that was malpractice because there was no way you look at film and could think that. We didn't need the media to come out halfway through the season to talk about what Carr needed, because it was all there. That's a failure on coaching and why CSP is one of the best.

You can be a great offensive mind but horrible at calling plays.

I put Sneaky Pete on the Mike Shula level of coordinator.

the job CSP did his last year here was COTY worthy.....

I was screaming this from the mountain tops.

For one of those very few times in my life I really thought before the season started we were going to contend in 2009......and, for a change, I was right.....still it took a lot of luck, the way the ball bounces, turnovers, etc.....so I get the destiny slant....

Two friends I grew up with in NOLA thought i was nuts when I told them the Saints had a SB level team before the season started.....not so much after the season ended.....

Our 2009 season is why I thought we (Auburn) were going to win the BCS in 2013.

 

[Rexman100]

For one of those very few times in my life I really thought before the season started we were going to contend in 2009......and, for a change, I was right.....still it took a lot of luck, the way the ball bounces, turnovers, etc.....so I get the destiny slant....

Two friends I grew up with in NOLA thought i was nuts when I told them the Saints had a SB level team before the season started.....not so much after the season ended.....

I remember feeling like, we have to win this game, we have to give it everything we have. Because we may never be in this situation again. I don’t mean to sound negative, but it really felt like that at the time.

 

[Rexman100]

Something that's lost in here is it took Drew years to master that offense and he looked the exact same way at times as you described the other QBs made the system look but I will say that our run game became non existent because we didn't have a complimentary back for Kamara. We went from MI to Murray and then we let Murray leave and we had Tony Jones.

I’ll give you that. We had absolutely no threat outside of Kamara. We didn’t need much, but we needed something of a power threat. But we had nothing. And still don’t. I bet if we go back and look at the defenses set when we had someone other than Kamara in, we’d see a trend. (I’m not sure of the trend, but it would be a trend)

The system would still work if Pete knew how to actually build around the players the way that Sean did. We could see the evolution of our offense as Drew evolved. When age began to kick in, you can see another shift in the offense. When Teddy came in, it felt similar to what Drew did but CSP added intermediate and deep wrinkles. When Taysom came in, we saw zone read elements. When Jameis started, we didn't know what was going on (LOL), until around the 5th game and I realized we were using play-action and screens a lot more and was like "dangit, I think we are going back to the Prime Brees style offense;" then injuries. Siemian had to ride with the punches and I still feel sorry for Book til this day..lol.

I literally cracked up laughing at this. I was shocked to hear you tell it like it was under JW. By the way, We were all like, wtf is going on here, under JWs. Worlds first folks, I finally got Jahsoul to take off the blinders, even if it was just for only a half a sentence. Let be real, this offense under Brees was silky smooth efficient and fluid, everything seems so well timed that the defense is like, yea right. “They are doing everything that we cannot defend”. Perfect timing and let’s not forget that we created the back shoulder throw. The other guys, I know, some were better than others, just couldn’t duplicate it. Teddy came the closest. Remember Teddy was cool headed, JW was saucer eyed amped. This offense required the Fonz.

I say all that to say this; CSP knew what players excelled in. If we went into 2022 running the same offense that was built in 2021, our team would have looked much different. If they didn't do an honest evaluation of Carr and figured he was just plug and play, that was malpractice because there was no way you look at film and could think that. We didn't need the media to come out halfway through the season to talk about what Carr needed, because it was all there. That's a failure on coaching and why CSP is one of the best.

You can be a great offensive mind but horrible at calling plays.

I put Sneaky Pete on the Mike Shula level of coordinator.


I was screaming this from the mountain tops.


Our 2009 season is why I thought we (Auburn) were going to win the BCS in 2013.

 

[jahsoul357]

I’ll give you that. We had absolutely no threat outside of Kamara. We didn’t need much, but we needed something of a power threat. But we had nothing. And still don’t. I bet if we go back and look at the defenses set when we had someone other than Kamara in, we’d see a trend. (I’m not sure of the trend, but it would be a trend)


I literally cracked up laughing at this. I was shocked to hear you tell it like it was under JW. By the way, We were all like, wtf is going on here, under JWs. Worlds first folks, I finally got Jahsoul to take off the blinders, even if it was just for only a half a sentence. Let be real, this offense under Brees was silky smooth efficient and fluid, everything seems so well timed that the defense is like, yea right. “They are doing everything that we cannot defend”. Perfect timing and let’s not forget that we created the back shoulder throw. The other guys, I know, some were better than others, just couldn’t duplicate it. Teddy came the closest. Remember Teddy was cool headed, JW was saucer eyed amped. This offense required the Fonz.

A lot of things can be said about me but more often than not, I try to be as objective as humanly possible. The first game made sense; our ball control was off the charts and we were up 17-3 going into halftime. We didn't have to do much that game but that COVID game (Panthers) was disgusting. The Patriots game was "eh." But that Giants game and going back over the All-22 is when it made sense to me...lol. The first play of the Bucs game is when it was fully realized.

Truth is, we say Teddy (my main man) was cool headed but Teddy played with a much better team and it's easy to be that way when you are throwing to the OPOY. Teddy was also the best fit to plug into the "declining" Drew offense. When you really sit down and think about the team that we put out on the field in 2021, there was no reason to believe that at the time of his injury, Winston would be top 10 in most QB stats and metrics, the best QB running play-action, the best QB in the red zone, and the best QB when facing pressure. Told me 3 things:
-CSP deserved his flowers as one of the best coaches in the NFL
-Jameis is way better than we actually give him credit for (and always has been)
-In hindsight, we make the playoffs easy if Winston/Taysom/AK stays healthy. With a healthy CGM and keeping Murray, I would guarantee a deep playoff run.

The offense under Brees didn't start silky smooth and fluid, and Drew's second year here made me believe that 2006 was a lie and a fluke. It wasn't until midway through 2008 where I felt like Drew arrived.