Demanding, Detailed, Accountable Klint Kubiak is winning over coaches and players alike (1 Viewer)

[DSnfla]

I get what you are saying about DA but we are talking about coaching the offense and our offense was better in 2021 than it was in 2022. We had DA's defense and a better team and still managed to lose more games going from 2021 to 2022. Now, I will say this, most will have a hard time winning with Ryan but I was always split on Gibbs. The 2007 and 2008 defenses did give up some points and were like "screw getting turnovers," (LOL), but dang if the offense didn't end up being the ones shooting themselves in the foot in a lot of those games.


If we had better coaching in 2022, it would have shown with the quarterbacks. Everyone wants to say "but the QB," well until this year. And with better coaching, we win 10+ games in both 2022 and this past season. With that, I'm really hoping that this new staff isn't all talk and it translate to the field.

The difference between O point production in 21 and 22 and 23 is less than 2 points a game, That's with SP handling the O. Good coaching can make a QB look good, and good QB play can make coaching look good. I think there are more examples of successful HC/QB duos where the QB goes on to have success and the HC struggles. Brady had success Belichick did not. Manning had success Dungy did not. Farve had success Holmgren did not. Payton is struggling without Brees, Even a good coach like Reid needed a great QB to win it all. It remains to see how much Rodgers makes Saleh look like a good HC. I think I'd take a Mahomes or Brees or Brady with just a competent HC Like a Qinn or Peterson rather than a Belichick or Reid or McVay or Shanny with an Alex Smith or JW or Fields

 

[DSnfla]

Perfection is the right word for sure. Don’t forget that we had a defensive TD that iced it on Mannings last drive. It was a back and forth game.

At that time, Indy was an AFC powerhouse that was an odds on favorite to be in the AFC champ game annually. We sort of came out of the woodwork. After 2006, we had a down year. So it’s not like we looked like an ascending team bound for the Super Bowl. Our end could’ve technically been vs Minn. In retrospect, It really seems like we were a team of destiny.

While SP gets all the credit for the 09 season and he deserves most of it it was Williams D that were the unsung heroes of that season, Not because he had a great statistical D but because we caused 39 TO's and scored 5 defensive TDs

 

[DSnfla]

Something that's lost in here is it took Drew years to master that offense and he looked the exact same way at times as you described the other QBs made the system look but I will say that our run game became non existent because we didn't have a complimentary back for Kamara. We went from MI to Murray and then we let Murray leave and we had Tony Jones.

The system would still work if Pete knew how to actually build around the players the way that Sean did. We could see the evolution of our offense as Drew evolved. When age began to kick in, you can see another shift in the offense. When Teddy came in, it felt similar to what Drew did but CSP added intermediate and deep wrinkles. When Taysom came in, we saw zone read elements. When Jameis started, we didn't know what was going on (LOL), until around the 5th game and I realized we were using play-action and screens a lot more and was like "dangit, I think we are going back to the Prime Brees style offense;" then injuries. Siemian had to ride with the punches and I still feel sorry for Book til this day..lol.

I say all that to say this; CSP knew what players excelled in. If we went into 2022 running the same offense that was built in 2021, our team would have looked much different. If they didn't do an honest evaluation of Carr and figured he was just plug and play, that was malpractice because there was no way you look at film and could think that. We didn't need the media to come out halfway through the season to talk about what Carr needed, because it was all there. That's a failure on coaching and why CSP is one of the best.

You can be a great offensive mind but horrible at calling plays.

I put Sneaky Pete on the Mike Shula level of coordinator.


I was screaming this from the mountain tops.


Our 2009 season is why I thought we (Auburn) were going to win the BCS in 2013.

I think DB had a very good grasp of the O from the get go . You don't go 10-6 with a mediocre D without really knowing what you're doing. Even in the 2 7-9 seasons before the SB he was throwing for 4, 5000 yrds. We went 7-9 due to a poor D not a bad O

 

[jahsoul357]

The difference between O point production in 21 and 22 and 23 is less than 2 points a game, That's with SP handling the O. Good coaching can make a QB look good, and good QB play can make coaching look good. I think there are more examples of successful HC/QB duos where the QB goes on to have success and the HC struggles.

There is actually some nuance with our 2021 season:

Weeks 1-8: 25.1 PPG
Weeks 9-12: 20.3 PPG
Weeks 13-18: 17.8 PPG

Brady had success Belichick did not.

Belichick's defense was always top tier. His problem was McDaniels leaving.

Manning had success Dungy did not.

Dungy had success before Manning

Farve had success Holmgren did not.

Favre's best seasons were under Holmgren. Holmgren then took the Seahawks to the Super Bowl

Payton is struggling without Brees,

Payton should have been a COTY candidate in 2021

Even a good coach like Reid needed a great QB to win it all.

When you look at the Chiefs objectively, they benefitted more from Spags defense. 2017 Alex Smith with Spags defense is probably making deep playoff runs every season. 2017 Alex Smith with this past seasons defense is winning the Super Bowl. Most of Alex Smith playoff losses were due to defense allowing a comeback. I just saw the Chiefs not score a single point in the second half, score under 20, and still beat the #1 offense in the NFL. I'm just saying...lol

 

[jahsoul357]

I think DB had a very good grasp of the O from the get go . You don't go 10-6 with a mediocre D without really knowing what you're doing. Even in the 2 7-9 seasons before the SB he was throwing for 4, 5000 yrds. We went 7-9 due to a poor D not a bad O

Our 2006 defense was 11th in yards allowed and 13th in points allowed. And to be honest, in 2007, Drew was awful to start the season. I mean downright horrible. I will always believe that halfway through year 3 is when it really clicked for Drew. It was a game where we blew somebody out and Drew was freaking automatic (I can't remember the game to save my life though).

 

[DSnfla]

There is actually some nuance with our 2021 season:

Weeks 1-8: 25.1 PPG
Weeks 9-12: 20.3 PPG
Weeks 13-18: 17.8 PPG


Belichick's defense was always top tier. His problem was McDaniels leaving.


Dungy had success before Manning

Favre's best seasons were under Holmgren. Holmgren then took the Seahawks to the Super Bowl

Payton should have been a COTY candidate in 2021


When you look at the Chiefs objectively, they benefitted more from Spags defense. 2017 Alex Smith with Spags defense is probably making deep playoff runs every season. 2017 Alex Smith with this past seasons defense is winning the Super Bowl. Most of Alex Smith playoff losses were due to defense allowing a comeback. I just saw the Chiefs not score a single point in the second half, score under 20, and still beat the #1 offense in the NFL. I'm just saying...lol

BB's problems were Brady leaving and not having at least a decent QB
All Dungy could do without PM was an NFC championship loss
Farve made it to the NFCCG without MH, MH got 1 game further
But the point is it took Mahomes to get Reid back to the SB he couldn't even get to the AFCCG without PH.
SP did a good job in 21 but an 8-8 coach should never be COTY

 

[DSnfla]

Our 2006 defense was 11th in yards allowed and 13th in points allowed. And to be honest, in 2007, Drew was awful to start the season. I mean downright horrible. I will always believe that halfway through year 3 is when it really clicked for Drew. It was a game where we blew somebody out and Drew was freaking automatic (I can't remember the game to save my life though).

07 was another typical slow start for SP, Look at how many points the D gave up! almost 30ppg in those 1st 4 games, then look at the next 5 , big difference. And we scored over 20 in almost every game after those

 

[jahsoul357]

BB's problems were Brady leaving and not having at least a decent QB
All Dungy could do without PM was an NFC championship loss
Farve made it to the NFCCG without MH, MH got 1 game further
But the point is it took Mahomes to get Reid back to the SB he couldn't even get to the AFCCG without PH.
SP did a good job in 21 but an 8-8 coach should never be COTY

-The 2021 Patriots won 10 games with a rookie Mac Jones. 2021 Patriots offense is what got McDaniels the Raiders job
-Manning didn't know what a playoff win was until Dungy got to Indy
-Favre never sniffed MVP again after MH
-Mahomes didn't throw a single TD in the 2018 division game.
-We went 9-8 and if we would have made the playoffs, he most definitely would have been in the conversation.

07 was another typical slow start for SP, Look at how many points the D gave up! almost 30ppg in those 1st 4 games, then look at the next 5 , big difference. And we scored over 20 in almost every game after those

Don't even try to put those first 4 games on the defense. lol Drew threw more pick-6s than touchdowns...
Those first 4 was a travesty..

 

[Rexman100]

While SP gets all the credit for the 09 season and he deserves most of it it was Williams D that were the unsung heroes of that season, Not because he had a great statistical D but because we caused 39 TO's and scored 5 defensive TDs

Yea no doubt. I was going to bring this up last week. When are the Saints going to officially claim. 3G. Because I agree, without him, we aren’t winning playoff football.

 

[Rexman100]

A lot of things can be said about me but more often than not, I try to be as objective as humanly possible. The first game made sense; our ball control was off the charts and we were up 17-3 going into halftime. We didn't have to do much that game but that COVID game (Panthers) was disgusting. The Patriots game was "eh." But that Giants game and going back over the All-22 is when it made sense to me...lol. The first play of the Bucs game is when it was fully realized.

Truth is, we say Teddy (my main man) was cool headed but Teddy played with a much better team and it's easy to be that way when you are throwing to the OPOY. Teddy was also the best fit to plug into the "declining" Drew offense. When you really sit down and think about the team that we put out on the field in 2021, there was no reason to believe that at the time of his injury, Winston would be top 10 in most QB stats and metrics, the best QB running play-action, the best QB in the red zone, and the best QB when facing pressure. Told me 3 things:
-CSP deserved his flowers as one of the best coaches in the NFL
-Jameis is way better than we actually give him credit for (and always has been)
-In hindsight, we make the playoffs easy if Winston/Taysom/AK stays healthy. With a healthy CGM and keeping Murray, I would guarantee a deep playoff run.

The offense under Brees didn't start silky smooth and fluid, and Drew's second year here made me believe that 2006 was a lie and a fluke. It wasn't until midway through 2008 where I felt like Drew arrived.

It’s impossible to be the man, after the Man. Understand that JW was in the worst position to succeed from a fans point of view. The unrealistic fan was thinking, JW is going to do everything Drew did, plus Run the ball and drop 50-60 yard dimes. And before you know it, we’ll be back dropping 50 burgers again left and right. So there’s that. And THAT is huge. No one can live up to that. Let be real. So when it came out clunky, the fans opinion went from euphoric to downright pissed. And there’s that Too. So I appreciate you guys here that separate themselves from the common fan and try and shed light on what’s really going on.

 

[sfidc3]

-The 2021 Patriots won 10 games with a rookie Mac Jones. 2021 Patriots offense is what got McDaniels the Raiders job
-Manning didn't know what a playoff win was until Dungy got to Indy
-Favre never sniffed MVP again after MH
-Mahomes didn't throw a single TD in the 2018 division game.
-We went 9-8 and if we would have made the playoffs, he most definitely would have been in the conversation.


Don't even try to put those first 4 games on the defense. lol Drew threw more pick-6s than touchdowns...
Those first 4 was a travesty..

Spot on....I'm not sure where the other guy is getting his info from but it's dead wrong....

 

[HouseCall]

The thing that I loved about Payton’s offense is you felt a genuine enthusiasm and excitement for the plays from Sean and the team. You felt like they could hit you from anywhere at any time.

With Pete, it always felt like so much was being left on the table. Situations where you could see a little razzle dazzle being effective - we saw the running back crash into a wall of blockers for no gain. Or frustratingly long developing plays where the o-line couldn’t hold up protection and Carr was blown up.
Or frustratingly short plays in spots where more yards were needed.

It just felt like everything Carmichael was calling was the opposite of what Sean would have called. There was no rhythm, no energy.
frankly, it was depressing to watch after so many years of crisp up-tempo play.

If anything, I hope Kubiak sees the special individual skills of the offensive players and says “we are going to make EVERY defense expect something special EVERY play!”

I’m excited. If only for the change - i’m excited.

 

[jahsoul357]

It’s impossible to be the man, after the Man. Understand that JW was in the worst position to succeed from a fans point of view. The unrealistic fan was thinking, JW is going to do everything Drew did, plus Run the ball and drop 50-60 yard dimes. And before you know it, we’ll be back dropping 50 burgers again left and right. So there’s that. And THAT is huge. No one can live up to that. Let be real. So when it came out clunky, the fans opinion went from euphoric to downright P'Oed. And there’s that Too. So I appreciate you guys here that separate themselves from the common fan and try and shed light on what’s really going on.

Spot on. His biggest "crime" was coming after Drew and the fanbase having unrealistic expectations. The funny thing is, we wanted JW to do everything Drew did when 95% of the quarterbacks in the league couldn't do what Drew did when you realize that their offensive scheme is doing all of the heavy lifting for them. But I digress; it's crazy that nobody ever really thought about the fact that part of the reason it came out "clunky" was because the offense was being installed in season and when you actually look at our roster:
-Nearly 1/2 of our starting lineup were UDFAs
-McCoy going down game 1 starts the season long rotation of O-linemen
-We let Murray walk during the offseason, leading to our anemic run game
-The 1000 kickers we went through

We spent so much time focused on the QB only that we didn't take an honest look at the deficiencies we really had on the team.

Spot on....I'm not sure where the other guy is getting his info from but it's dead wrong....

LOL...I don't know what my good man was on with that take...

 

[Rexman100]

Spot on. His biggest "crime" was coming after Drew and the fanbase having unrealistic expectations. The funny thing is, we wanted JW to do everything Drew did when 95% of the quarterbacks in the league couldn't do what Drew did when you realize that their offensive scheme is doing all of the heavy lifting for them. But I digress; it's crazy that nobody ever really thought about the fact that part of the reason it came out "clunky" was because the offense was being installed in season and when you actually look at our roster:
-Nearly 1/2 of our starting lineup were UDFAs
-McCoy going down game 1 starts the season long rotation of O-linemen
-We let Murray walk during the offseason, leading to our anemic run game
-The 1000 kickers we went through

We spent so much time focused on the QB only that we didn't take an honest look at the deficiencies we really had on the team.


LOL...I don't know what my good man was on with that take...

Its a fact that fans' unrealistic expectations are a legit obstacle. IMO, its also why Carr isnt embraced by the Whotdat nation. He's the man, after the man, after the Man. However for Carr, im seeing this fan base trend to accepting him. To show how unrealistic fans are, if Carr would go down to an injury in the season, the fans would go absolutely ape-sheet with excitement for Rattler, thinking they are about to see a Tom Brady like performance when Bledsoe went down. (Caveat: if Rattler looks great in the pre-season)

 

[jahsoul357]

Its a fact that fans' unrealistic expectations are a legit obstacle. IMO, its also why Carr isnt embraced by the Whotdat nation. He's the man, after the man, after the Man. However for Carr, im seeing this fan base trend to accepting him.

Yep; I think the fundamental difference with Carr is we went from Drew to Jameis/Dalton and all season, it was pushed that QB was the primary reason for where we were. So, it felt he was coming in as sort a savior with these lofty expectations based off who he really wasn't. It's 2 things that I've never done:

-Attacked his character: I don't think he is fake and he seems to be a great guy off the field. I just don't think he has been embraced because he hasn't embraced. That part is a give and get
-Lied about what he could or couldn't do: I felt that based on what film showed, some of the these we were given didn't line up.

I think this offensive change will do Carr good

To show how unrealistic fans are, if Carr would go down to an injury in the season, the fans would go absolutely ape-sheet with excitement for Rattler, thinking they are about to see a Tom Brady like performance when Bledsoe went down. (Caveat: if Rattler looks great in the pre-season)

I'm not there yet with Rattler. I didn't see enough from him in college and "Mahomes" passes that everyone hypes are probably the least impressive thing a QB can do to me..lol. Also, if people really looked at Tom Brady taking over for Bledsoe, Brady was along for the ride that first season..lol. I'll take the chip tho (and not the cheating it took to get it..lol)