Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (3 Viewers)

[schuetter]

I get the sentiment, but the history of Seattle actually connects better with the idea of turning the page from one era to the next, rather than shooting for “continuity” when you are trending away from being good.

Why? Mike Holmgrem retired after a successful run as HC and de facto GM after a losing 2008 season. Even though their roster was in transition, with a defense that needed to be rebuilt, they first hired Jim Mora Jr. as HC and tried to keep most everything else in place because they thought the foundation for more success with the same core was still there.

Buuuut, Mora Jr. put together an ineffective, Dennis Allen type season (5-11), which led the new owner to reset everything and bring in Carroll (in hindsight, this is type of reset is what NO needed/needs).

Carroll was able to take that very flawed team but still talented in spots team, with an older (but relatively inexpensive) aging QB and a defense that was bad, but being rebuilt on the fly, and rally them to that 7-9 record and playoff upset over NO.

If Seattle had stuck with Mora Jr. and the remnants of Holmgren’s staff and F/O, they most likely would have kept trending downward. This is why Paul Allen totally changed the coaching staff, scouting, etc.

Carroll was able to reset the coaching and culture, build the Legion of Doom,
and find his unicorn 3rd rd franchise QB in short order.

Long story short, the saga of Seattle/Pete Carroll shows that trying to maintain continuity when the original architect of it (Holmgren) is gone is a fool’s errand and once they pulled the band-aid off and actually found a new “architect “ everything started falling into place.

This is good insight. It makes sense to take a shot at leaving most of a staff in place when there was a history of success with that staff. The reason this rarely works is because, when a new HC is hired (especially when he is promoted from within like DA), he not only has his own way of doing things that the old staff may not be used to or on board with, but also has to take charge quickly as the new kid in class. That's a difficult thing to pull off, which is why it's often best to let the new HC hire his own guys that know how he runs things and respect him as a HC. I think these changes will be good for DA. Let's see if he can translate that into wins.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Well, even if it doesn't work out with Allen, you still have Carr, if he's signed, and hiring a coaching staff who can get the most out of him would be the way to go. They'll have time to work with Carr and build around him. So it's not all bad either way.

I hope you’re correct and Carr is worth what he’s going get in terms of cap space. (If he signs with NO)

I understand DA has at least through 2023 to show he is not the total loser he has been thus far as an HC. Here’s to hoping for a miraculous turnaround that would be a first in NFL history.

If this all comes together into something good then it will maybe actually be fun to watch the Saints play football again.

But outside of the NO fan base and F/O there are very few people that see the situation “here” as on the upswing. I see the logic in a lot of that outside, impartial analysis.

 

[DSnfla]

It's kinda hard to know what you are getting in the draft. You could luck into a Hurts or you could wind up with a JaMarcus Russell. You never know till you are 3 years down the road. At least with Carr, you know you have someone who's at least pretty good. Kind of a hard decision to make. It's easy to say just retool and go with a rookie, till you find out they guy you picked isn't very good and You blow for 3 years and you have to start all over again. That scares me more than Carr.

Plus if that rook doesn't work out you've wasted the last yrs of AK, Cam Davis. And the prime yrs of Lattimore and a food portion of your O line

 

[DSnfla]

I understand your opinion here and would love to see everything work out, but if I had to bet I’d say that Carr, even if signed, will not be enough to right the DA ship. And sinking $35-40 mil a year (when it’s all averaged out) could also make the inevitable transition to the next era a longer and more difficult process.

It will be great if the hope gods grant your wishes, but everything I have seen since the DA era started makes it seem unlikely.

The question is what is righting the ship? Or at least head it in the right direction. Would 10-7, win the NFCS do it? would that record and a playoff win do it? How about 11-6, a division championship, and a playoff loss?

 

[DaveXA]

The question is what is righting the ship? Or at least head it in the right direction. Would 10-7, win the NFCS do it? would that record and a playoff win do it? How about 11-6, a division championship, and a playoff loss?

10-7 I can live with. That's certainly moving in the right direction.

 

[Saint Jack]

The question is what is righting the ship? Or at least head it in the right direction. Would 10-7, win the NFCS do it? would that record and a playoff win do it? How about 11-6, a division championship, and a playoff loss?

In what world could a 10 win season NOT be considered a step in the right direction?

 

[DSnfla]

In what world could a 10 win season NOT be considered a step in the right direction?

There are quite a few that think even though DA would win 10 or 11 games they's still want him fired

 

[Saint Jack]

There are quite a few that think even though DA would win 10 or 11 games they's still want him fired

It would be ironic if DA gets to 11 wins in 2023, he’d be 18-16. Payton’s win total in his first two seasons was 17-15.

 

[Judge_Smails]

The question is what is righting the ship? Or at least head it in the right direction. Would 10-7, win the NFCS do it? would that record and a playoff win do it? How about 11-6, a division championship, and a playoff loss?

Sure. That would be great. I cannot see it right now, but I would love to see it.

If it ends up 6-11 and Carr plays OK, but not enough to change the direction?

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The '17 class is wasted...we missed our window. Now it's all about how much time we want to wait to find out that a losing head coach is a losing head coach.

You sign Carr to a 4/160ish and we suck...we're stuck sucking for the next 4 years. We draft a rookie and he's re-Ian Book, we dump him, move on to the next one without the financial constraint. Both are likely outcomes IMO and both result in DA getting canned but only one option hamstrings us for the future after DA.

Me? For 2023, I want DA to prove he can win with a "safe ball control" offense that "minimizes mistakes" with the QB he signed last offseason to run that offensive game plan - Andy Dalton

 

[nakadish]

The '17 class is wasted...we missed our window. Now it's all about how much time we want to wait to find out that a losing head coach is a losing head coach.

You sign Carr to a 4/160ish and we suck...we're stuck sucking for the next 4 years. We draft a rookie and he's re-Ian Book, we dump him, move on to the next one without the financial constraint. Both are likely outcomes IMO and both result in DA getting canned but only one option hamstrings us for the future after DA.

Me? For 2023, I want DA to prove he can win with a "safe ball control" offense that "minimizes mistakes" with the QB he signed last offseason to run that offensive game plan - Andy Dalton

Payton waisted the window by thinking UDFA WRs and MT were good enough to get a SB. TLL never should have been in an NFL uniform in the first place. Payton's offense was good for the regular season, but not in the playoffs. You need more than 2 weapons in the playoffs. Payton's ego kept him from more rings.

But, I'd rather DA's defense and PC's 2012 offense if they can get Carr. That would be fun to watch. Outside of that, I don't think it's going to be pretty.

And, how did the Broncos fair going with rookies after Manning and a SB roster? Have they even had a winning season since? Be careful what you ask for.

 

[DaveXA]

There are quite a few that think even though DA would win 10 or 11 games they's still want him fired

You'll need to show that, because for all the hate he gets, if he starts putting up 10 and 11 win season, most will gladly eat their crow.

 

[DaveXA]

Sure. That would be great. I cannot see it right now, but I would love to see it.

If it ends up 6-11 and Carr plays OK, but not enough to change the direction?

I'd say if he puts up a worse recod than last year, he should be fired. And I think Loomis and Gayle would agree.

 

[No2DC]

You'll need to show that, because for all the hate he gets, if he starts putting up 10 and 11 win season, most will gladly eat their crow.

That's true, but if he doesn't, all heck is gonna break lose.

 

[DaveXA]

The '17 class is wasted...we missed our window. Now it's all about how much time we want to wait to find out that a losing head coach is a losing head coach.

You sign Carr to a 4/160ish and we suck...we're stuck sucking for the next 4 years. We draft a rookie and he's re-Ian Book, we dump him, move on to the next one without the financial constraint. Both are likely outcomes IMO and both result in DA getting canned but only one option hamstrings us for the future after DA.

Me? For 2023, I want DA to prove he can win with a "safe ball control" offense that "minimizes mistakes" with the QB he signed last offseason to run that offensive game plan - Andy Dalton

We're not gonna be stuck for 4 years...at least I hope not. Allen should/will be fired if they go backwards with Carr next season. But a new coaching staff tailored to Carr's talents should turn the ship around in 2024.