Eventual O-Line Vulnerability? (1 Viewer)

[livefromDC]

I think Kubiak is still hiding a lot of his hand. Yes, he has focused on the running game 'running' the offense through Kamara which is what Kubiak said he was going to do during the offseason. He's also been very strategic with the pass plays. The shots to Shaheed have served a very valuable purpose which will continue to pay dividends all season now making the run game even more potent. I never understood the idea of using the deep threat as an emergency situation go to move, but you see some OC falling into the trap of hiding that deep shot play until the 4th quarter and hoping the team bites on a double move or the WR simply runs by the defender when the team needs a score. Yes, the Saints have connected on those plays which have emphasized how defenses will have to stretch themselves to protect against it, but even if they hadn't, those shots would have still been effective for the run game. That they were just puts the entire NFL on notice. You can't cheat up to stop the run against the Saints. That helps the Saints before the coin toss even happens.

Ok so moving those plays to Shaheed aside since they serve/will continue to serve a very important purpose in the run game. Also, let's remove the pass plays to the Saints #1 WR, Olave. How much have we really seen? I really don't like bringing up Carmichael to make this point because I'm really not aiming to point out another reason why he was...not good, but it's appropriate for the point I want to make. In assigning blame for the past year's offense, we often point to the following:
1.) horrifically misusing Kamara by running him into a brick wall for 3 hours
2.) No pre-snap motion
3.) terrible offensive line strategy that didn't play to the players' strengths
4.) not throwing to Kamara in space
5.) Not using play action.

And yes, those are all huge reasons for the Saints uninspiring offense for the past few seasons, but particularly last year. This next thing was so far down on the list of things we weren't doing that it rarely gets mentioned as a factor in the Saints poor showings especially early in the season. I'm not even sure of the best name for it because it wasn't discussed as often, so I'll just call it this...complementary WR routes. Too often last year, the Saints WRs were not put in the best position on obvious passing plays even. The Saints weren't using the whole field, particularly the middle of the field, and WRs were often running routes too close together making life too easy for defenders. While we haven't seen much of Kubiak's passing attack yet, I don't think he's going to suffer from this problem. And the best part? The NFL, after 2 games already, still doesn't really know how the Saints will attack the field in 3 WRs sets. Yes, they know Shaheed is dangerous. They know Olave is a #1. The Saints haven't had to tip their hand about any other WR yet. For example, camp beast, Tipton. Tipton is far from a secret weapon, but Kubiak hasn't forgotten how great he was in camp 10 yards from the line of scrimmage. We don't know how he's going to use Wilson with Olave and Shaheed taking attention deep or to another side of the field. I just have to believe Kubiak is going to be more creative about getting the ball out fast and putting the WRs is favorable matchups than we have seen recently. Perhaps that the cause for the OP's trepidation. But I have to believe that the team that commits to stopping the Saints from running the ball will have to do so by sacrificing deep threats and making themselves vulnerable to quick matchups that favor the Saints within the first 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. We haven't really seen Kubiak's quick pass game.

 

[Fiyo]

I think Kubiak is still hiding a lot of his hand. Yes, he has focused on the running game 'running' the offense through Kamara which is what Kubiak said he was going to do during the offseason. He's also been very strategic with the pass plays. The shots to Shaheed have served a very valuable purpose which will continue to pay dividends all season now making the run game even more potent. I never understood the idea of using the deep threat as an emergency situation go to move, but you see some OC falling into the trap of hiding that deep shot play until the 4th quarter and hoping the team bites on a double move or the WR simply runs by the defender when the team needs a score. Yes, the Saints have connected on those plays which have emphasized how defenses will have to stretch themselves to protect against it, but even if they hadn't, those shots would have still been effective for the run game. That they were just puts the entire NFL on notice. You can't cheat up to stop the run against the Saints. That helps the Saints before the coin toss even happens.

Ok so moving those plays to Shaheed aside since they serve/will continue to serve a very important purpose in the run game. Also, let's remove the pass plays to the Saints #1 WR, Olave. How much have we really seen? I really don't like bringing up Carmichael to make this point because I'm really not aiming to point out another reason why he was...not good, but it's appropriate for the point I want to make. In assigning blame for the past year's offense, we often point to the following:
1.) horrifically misusing Kamara by running him into a brick wall for 3 hours
2.) No pre-snap motion
3.) terrible offensive line strategy that didn't play to the players' strengths
4.) not throwing to Kamara in space
5.) Not using play action.

And yes, those are all huge reasons for the Saints uninspiring offense for most of the season particularly last year. This next thing was so far down on the list of things we weren't doing that it rarely gets mentioned as a factor in the Saints poor showings especially early in the season. I'm not even sure of the best name for it because it wasn't discussed as often, so I'll just call it this...complementary WR routes. Too often last year, the Saints WRs were not put in the best position on obvious passing plays even. The Saints weren't using the whole field, particularly the middle of the field, and WRs were often running routes too close together making life too easy for defenders. While we haven't seen much of Kubiak's passing attack yet, I don't think he's going to suffer from this problem. And the best part? The NFL, after 2 games already, still doesn't really know how the Saints will attack the field in 3 WRs sets. Yes, they know Shaheed is dangerous. They know Olave is a #1. The Saints haven't had to tip their hand about any other WR yet. For example, camp beast, Tipton. Tipton is far from a secret weapon, but Kubiak hasn't forgotten how great he was in camp 10 yards from the line of scrimmage. We don't know how he's going to use Wilson with Olave and Shaheed taking attention deep or to another side of the field. I just have to believe Kubiak is going to be more creative about getting the ball out fast and putting the WRs is favorable matchups than we have seen recently. Perhaps that the cause for the OP's trepidation. But I have to believe that the team that commits to stopping the Saints from running the ball will have to do so by sacrificing deep threats and making themselves vulnerable to quick matchups that favor the Saints within the first 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. We haven't really seen Kubiak's quick pass game.

A much more detailed and thorough version of my recent replay. Well said and well done

 

[HouseCall]

This is one of the issues we absolutely will face this season and the questions becomes not if but when.

Nobody has gone undefeated in 50 years - so at some point we will be on here looking at the reasons we lost a game or two or three…

Everyone is really high on the Saints now and the offense. It’s exciting to the fans outside of Saints fans because the fans are growing bored of the Chiefs and the same old same old. They want to see a new thing - and through 2 weeks, it’s been the Saints.

While the media is now dumping praise on Carr and Kubiak - one person has been more cautious and that’s Mike Florio and though some have accused him of being a hater, I think I agree a lot with his view.

He said, in essence, “I need to see what this offense does when it gets punched in the mouth!” He sees that it’s kind of a buzz saw now but at some point, a team is going to get the blueprint on how to fluster and frustrate Carr and how to trip up the offensive line and neutralize Shaheed - and that’s when Kubiak is going to have to show that he’s a next level coach and playcaller.

I think we are better than anyone gave us credit. I think we can be special if the momentum continues to build - but at some point - there will be adversity and how the team responds to that will decide if we are a contender or a true flash in the pan

 

[Dago]

Our run blocking is elite. It is currently nearly unstoppable and has the league in a frenzy to stop it. The issue is, what if a team DOES stop it? What if we get behind and are forced to pass? We get lucky on home runs but the line is not built to pass block. Im worried about this one dimensional aspect of our line if a team goes up on us a couple scores and tees off on our line forcing us to pass. We are so starstruck by the rungame we need to consider what happens if its not going so well.

If you look at our play designs, if a team is in position to stop the run they likely aren't in a position to get quick pressure on our QB. That's a benefit of attacking the perimeters with our zone blocking run game....the flow of a run play (or a play action) leads the defense away from Carr. Defenses can't really utilize the philosophy of "stop the run on the way to the QB" on us.

 

[livefromDC]

Seems Fiyo and I are on the same wavelength. I neglected to completely connect the dots. We both emphasized the Saints employing a "quick passing game" because while the O line has been really good, better than expected, we know and I suspect Kubiak definitely knows that pass protection will not be this line's strong suit. And like he's shown so far, he will adapt to using a strategy that suits the talent the Saints have and not what he'd would like to do regardless. That's why I think we will see lots of quick passes and continue to see lots of pre-snap motion.

 

[BBarnes]

I stopped reading when he said we get lucky on homeruns. Literally not one deep ball as had any luck associated with it.

 

[FooDoo]

Our run blocking is elite. It is currently nearly unstoppable and has the league in a frenzy to stop it. The issue is, what if a team DOES stop it? What if we get behind and are forced to pass? We get lucky on home runs but the line is not built to pass block. Im worried about this one dimensional aspect of our line if a team goes up on us a couple scores and tees off on our line forcing us to pass. We are so starstruck by the rungame we need to consider what happens if its not going so well.

Panthers & Cowboys were playing to stop the run. The LB were closers to the line. A couple of Yankee Concept big plays and their D were in their heels, not knowing what to do.

The TE leak will keep a lot of team honest with going all out to stop the run. Though Moreau TD was called back for OL being 2 yards downfield, he was wide open.

The mistake with that play was they fooled the defense so much that McCoy & Ruiz had no one to block. Had they been able to engage someone at the line, they could had driven them back a couple of yards and not be called for ineligible players downfield.

Look at the Panthers game where Shaheed leaked. Both McCoy & Ruiz was able to engaged at the line and drive him back a couple of yards. Panthers D overcommit to the run and Shaheed was pretty open.

The Saints O-line is really good at masking run blocking vs pass blocking

 

[TribuneUK]

I'm just going to keep using this:-

The last week has been an object lesson in how well people cope with unexpected success.

We've had:-

'Ohhh noes, Fuaga's back might be ruined!'
[Newsflash: back not ruined]

'Ohhh nooooo, Lattimore can't go. Our poor, unfortunate pass defense will be exposed!'
[Newsflash: team depth covered the missing player]

And now it's
'Ohhhh nooooooooooo. Our (just arrived) OC is far too good. He's bound to ditch us for somewhere else!!!!11'

Talk about looking for problems.

Since the above, I've also seen:

'Ohhh nooo, what if one of our starting receivers misses any time?'
[Newsflash: teams have depth for a reason]

And now:

'Our O line is playing too well! The world may end if someone figures out how to slow them down!!!!'
[Newsflash: Coaches set out to stop what the other team is good at, all the time. Our coaches' job is to then make the adjustments needed to win the game.]

Relax. Breathe. Enjoy.

Until the ride stops.

 

[JvilleJoe]

Adebo and Alontae and Kool-aid are dogs I never thought Marshon could be expendable but he really is now

I’ve always been a fan of Marshon but realize he is never available and for sure is not a player today you can count on week to week! We have rare depth in the secondary so my view is we move him for what we can get, probably not much sadly, next season or maybe even before the trade deadline in October.

 

[picnicwithfish]

What sets us apart is the power to finesse factor that we have with these personnel groups. As long as Taysom stays healthy, there are SOOOO many layers to this offense. It really makes it hard for a defense to build a game plan on “what ifs”.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Our run blocking is elite. It is currently nearly unstoppable and has the league in a frenzy to stop it. The issue is, what if a team DOES stop it? What if we get behind and are forced to pass? We get lucky on home runs but the line is not built to pass block. Im worried about this one dimensional aspect of our line if a team goes up on us a couple scores and tees off on our line forcing us to pass. We are so starstruck by the rungame we need to consider what happens if its not going so well.

That is the question. Carr has not really proven to be a very good comeback QB in the past. He is best using play action and that goes out the window when you are playing catchup. I also have concerns about Penning continuing to keep the pocket clean when there is not a threat of a running game. We’ll see. Only time will tell. The key…as it has been in prior weeks…is to get an early lead. We’re going to be just about unstoppable in that scenario

 

[bclemms]

OP has valid concerns.

1. Speed. This gives you more cushion on the outside and opens up the quick passing game.
2. Motion and misdirection. This causes defenses to hesitate for a fraction of a second making it easier on your oline.
3. Versatility. Taysom, AK and Sheed can line up all over the place making it difficult to key on certain player packages.
4. Defense. If you have a good defense, then it should prevent your offense from getting into this position too often.


This team has a lot less to prove. How will they play in tight games? How will they handle adversity? How will Kubiak handle adjustments as the season progresses.

The more a team shows out, the more they get studied by both offensive and defensive minds around the league. The more you get studied, the more defects become apparent. Which then asks the question, how will we adjust?

This has been a well built team for years. Execution on the offense has held this team back the last two seasons. I had huge doubts this could be fixed but they've blown me away. Now that they have, we've already won and everything else is just a fun ride from here.

 

[Rexman100]

Kubiak's scheme has our guys able to get leverage on the other team and really hitting their better players from a lot of angles. I hope they can keep this sort of thing going. I really thought Parsons speed might have allowed him to disrupt our offense more but as a unit they did a great job. Accordingly they also have a lot of just run it type plays which allows the linemen to really fire off and get the advantage rather than make a couple audibles and play passively.

ive watched the game a few times now, and what i noticed is that the Saints made the entire Dallas defense look slow. Without breaking it down piece by piece, it boils down to this. At the snap Dallas' D was busy thinking, then trying to react to catch up. We were busy making first contact and executing our play. Truthfully, we beat them before the game even started.

 

[BBarnes]

That is the question. Carr has not really proven to be a very good comeback QB in the past. He is best using play action and that goes out the window when you are playing catchup. I also have concerns about Penning continuing to keep the pocket clean when there is not a threat of a running game. We’ll see. Only time will tell. The key…as it has been in prior weeks…is to get an early lead. We’re going to be just about unstoppable in that scenario

Technically that is not true, although I understand your point and you are right that he is best using PA.

However, he has not only been good but he had the most comeback wins in the NFL since 2016 going into last year. More than Brees, Rodgers, and so on. He is 14th in NFL history for the most comeback wins since 1950. Yes, part of that is probably because he has been on bad teams a lot, but still he has actually been one of the best we have seen in those years in his career at coming back. Although he only has one comeback win with us.

He is now 3rd on the list from 2016-2024

NFL Fourth Quarter Comebacks Active Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

1. Matthew Stafford (36), 2. Russell Wilson (31), 3. Derek Carr (28), 4. Ryan Tannehill (26), 5. Kirk Cousins (25),

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

Our run blocking is elite. It is currently nearly unstoppable and has the league in a frenzy to stop it. The issue is, what if a team DOES stop it? What if we get behind and are forced to pass? We get lucky on home runs but the line is not built to pass block. Im worried about this one dimensional aspect of our line if a team goes up on us a couple scores and tees off on our line forcing us to pass. We are so starstruck by the rungame we need to consider what happens if its not going so well.

You have to trust that Kubiak will find a way to change it up and he will, but I think from just what we have seen early the passing game is good enough to get the running game going if it slows down.