For anyone who says Carr is just a stat padder and don’t win: (5 Viewers)

[sfidc3]

They also go on to the players individual record as well. Carr sits at 77-92. That is below average. Dumb statement agreed but you are the one that thinks wins and losses don't matter. I just pointed it out to you. You are the one bringing Burrow up, not me. Thats the second poor comparison you brought up. So you are implying Carr and Burrow are on the same level since you keep using him as a basis of comparison. Derek Carr you say is above average except for the whole winning thing. Got it. Your irrational bias is well irrational. You mention fantasy and yet ignore win/loss record which is in fact real.

Dumb statement is still dumb, but apparently isn't a show stopper?

 

[Mr.Blonde]

Dumb statement is still dumb, but apparently isn't a show stopper?

The Derek Carr argument will always continue. Especially since he will probably be our Quarterback again.

 

[Just Win Maybe]

They got rid of the guy that owns nearly every QB record in franchise history... but have gone through about 5-6 starting QBs in the last 2 years since dumping him, and probably another new starting QB in 2025.

But hey, at least they don't have Carr's "losing mentality" anymore huh? Oh wait they've lost like 22 games the past 2 seasons...

 

[Rouxble]

It's HILARIOUS to think that the Raiders are better off having moved on from Carr.

In the DECADE before they had Carr they went 49 - 111 and had ZERO winning Seasons

With Carr as a Starter they went 63 - 83 had a 10 win season, a 12 win season, and should have beaten the Bengals in the playoffs.

Since they cut Carr they are 12-22 and have not had a winning Season.



Implying Carr was the problem in Oakland shows you dont know what you are talking about. Derek Carr gave them their best two season in TWENTY YEARS!

Carr is definitely the best QB they've had in recent years, but there's not a huge difference between 63-83 (.415) and 12-22 (.353). It's the equivalent of being 7-10 instead of 6-11 on average.

 

[Ghost]

Carr is definitely the best QB they've had in recent years, but there's not a huge difference between 63-83 (.415) and 12-22 (.353). It's the equivalent of being 7-10 instead of 6-11 on average.

That’s the funny thing that’s getting missed. Some additional thoughts

Are there worse QBs than Carr? Sure are? But like people mentioning Minshew above? They mean the stop gap that failed? Sure. Now it’s over. They are likely to try again at QB. And if that doesn’t work try again. The Saints for 2025 are likely stuck with Carr and the average play he represents.

The Raiders QB situation left a lot to be desired this year but opposed to the insanity of trotting Carr out for his typical 4000 yard, 23ish TD seasons which while not bad isn’t great either. When people say “you could do a lot worse than Carr!” Some Carr backers said that for years.

As far as his “owning all the Raider passing records” mentioned above? Sure. That’s a function of his average play for a decade. Add to this over the history of the Raiders you have to go back to Stabler when the league wasn’t a passing league to have a QB that has played for them that long. Even Gannon came from somewhere else and was good to great for a five(ish) year span. As a franchise they have never really drafted QBs and typically picked up FA, Plunkett is an another example. Thats also why the Raiders sticking with Carr was so puzzling. Paying him at the time elite QB money for non-elite play.

Point being Carr had those records by default, not because he was great.

When people say “it’s a team game and it’s not all his fault” Sure but he didn’t help them either. He’s unlikely to ever be the guy that puts a team on his back. He needs a lot to go right and then he might squeak into the playoffs.

Now the same thing is playing out on the Saints.

In the end it’s likely to not matter. The Saints are likely going to jettison Carr at some point, only question is when. As far as trades? Who is trading for him? The Saints were competing against themselves last time.

 

[DaveXA]

Carr is definitely the best QB they've had in recent years, but there's not a huge difference between 63-83 (.415) and 12-22 (.353). It's the equivalent of being 7-10 instead of 6-11 on average.

While wins/losses are important, they aren't a great metric for individual players. Like, Joe Burrow is having an MVP type year, yet they didn't even make the playoffs, much less win their division. We all know Burrow is much better than his record indicates. And we've seen lots of top shelf QBs struggle to get wins because it's a team game.

But yeah, it's about a 1-2 game difference per season, so I wouldn't use that. Something like QBR or similar would be a better metric as to how well or efficient a qb is playing.

 

[St. Geezy]

I have seen this graphic and to me it is more of an organizational indictment than a player indictment, and his time here attests to that, not just his time in Vegas, a known QB and coach graveyard for the longest of time.

We complain and complain about complain about everything that’s wrong with the team, including being poorly coached, and yet stats like these all fall on Carr?

Are these teams bad because they have Carr as their starter, or is Carr’s record bad because he’s on bad, poorly coached (and injured) teams?

Knowing what I know about the Raiders organization as a whole, and about our own organization over the past three seasons, I tend to think it’s the latter.

 

[Rouxble]

While wins/losses are important, they aren't a great metric for individual players. Like, Joe Burrow is having an MVP type year, yet they didn't even make the playoffs, much less win their division. We all know Burrow is much better than his record indicates. And we've seen lots of top shelf QBs struggle to get wins because it's a team game.

But yeah, it's about a 1-2 game difference per season, so I wouldn't use that. Something like QBR or similar would be a better metric as to how well or efficient a qb is playing.

I agree it isn't the best metric, I was just pointing out that those W/L records were almost the same.

Carr is rarely high on any metrics that adjust for opponent and/or situation, but he is also rarely at the bottom of the list. He is a middle of the pack NFL QB who needs a strong roster and coaching staff, and we don't seem to have that right now. It's probably better to move on to Rattler and try building around him rather than put Carr into his likely third offensive system in three years and try to build around him (at 34 years old). I can't imagine any team in the league giving him $40m to play next year, most teams already have their guy, established or in development. The Jets and Giants seem like the only openings pre-draft, and Carr would be in competition with Sam Darnold and Kirk Cousins for one of those jobs.

 

[Stinkers]

Maybe catch up with the thread before making your asinine posts.
I also remember David Carr being drafted to the worst NFL team in recent history, then they refused to build an O-line to protect him and just focused on skill players and defense, completely ignoring the O-line. He was sacked more than any QB in the league and they ruined his career.
But again, keep making your uneducated argument that the QB is at fault.

 

[Ghost]

I have seen this graphic and to me it is more of an organizational indictment than a player indictment, and his time here attests to that, not just his time in Vegas, a known QB and coach graveyard for the longest of time.

We complain and complain about complain about everything that’s wrong with the team, including being poorly coached, and yet stats like these all fall on Carr?

Are these teams bad because they have Carr as their starter, or is Carr’s record bad because he’s on bad, poorly coached (and injured) teams?

Knowing what I know about the Raiders organization as a whole, and about our own organization over the past three seasons, I tend to think it’s the latter.

Both things can be true at the same time. Carr has been on bad teams and is bad himself.

Doesn’t have to be an either or situation.

 

[DaveXA]

Both things can be true at the same time. Carr has been on bad teams and is bad himself.

Doesn’t have to be an either or situation.

His career numbers aside from W/L record say otherwise though.

 

[Ghost]

His career numbers aside from W/L record say otherwise though.

Not really this got broken down years ago when he was a Raider. Of the top of my head it was around these high level points:
4,000-4500 yards a season which isn’t bad.

But here is where the problem starts:
- his TD production per year is actually fairly low he averages around 24 TD passes a season. That would have been fine but Herbert and Mahomes were throwing for 10+ more than him.

INTs- last season with the Raiders he had something like 14 in addition to seven lost fumbles or so. In other words almost as many turnovers as TDS.

Another notable was going almost three years (I think it was 2018-2020) with 2 TD games as a maximum. That right nothing about 2 for three seasons it was puzzling.

Then add to this his myriad of issues: lack of vision on the field, hearing phantom steps, fumbling the ball out of the end zone, propensity to throw the ball away with the game in the line (happened). What are you left with and these aren’t even all his flaws.

He’s one of the most fascinating QBs ever because he has almost every physical tool but is lacking in the mental and processing part. I’m convinced he literally does not see the field that well. Or at best struggles with initial reads 2 progressions.

There he never been a QB I can think of outside of Joey Harrington with the Lions who has gotten such leeway. Even then the Lions were smart to pull the plug after 5, took the Raiders almost 10.

Hey maybe he gets it in 2025. Is anyone going to stake a lot on that? I sure wouldn’t.

 

[DaveXA]

Not really this got broken down years ago when he was a Raider. Of the top of my head it was around these high level points:
4,000-4500 yards a season which isn’t bad.

But here is where the problem starts:
- his TD production per year is actually fairly low he averages around 24 TD passes a season. That would have been fine but Herbert and Mahomes were throwing for 10+ more than him.

INTs- last season with the Raiders he had something like 14 in addition to seven lost fumbles or so. In other words almost as many turnovers as TDS.

Another notable was going almost three years (I think it was 2018-2020) with 2 TD games as a maximum. That right nothing about 2 for three seasons it was puzzling.

Then add to this his myriad of issues: lack of vision on the field, hearing phantom steps, fumbling the ball out of the end zone, propensity to throw the ball away with the game in the line (happened). What are you left with and these aren’t even all his flaws.

He’s one of the most fascinating QBs ever because he has almost every physical tool but is lacking in the mental and processing part. I’m convinced he literally does not see the field that well. Or at best struggles with initial reads 2 progressions.

There he never been a QB I can think of outside of Joey Harrington with the Lions who has gotten such leeway. Even then the Lions were smart to pull the plug after 5, took the Raiders almost 10.

Hey maybe he gets it in 2025. Is anyone going to stake a lot on that? I sure wouldn’t.

Career stats -



You can cherry pick certain stats and years, but overall his career numbers are very good. He's far from perfect, and certainly hasn't been elite, but his numbers compare well to Stafford's before he was traded to the Rams. Pretty solid.

What he does need is a strong roster and coach and he can get you to the playoffs. He's not elite enough to carry a team on his back though.

 

[Ghost]

What is being cherry picked? Take TDs he averages 23.36 TDs per year. That’s right in line with what I said.

257 total divided by 11 years.

And to add to this? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02/gamelog/

That is his game log, look at it year by years. A much better perspective IMO.

 

[SWJJ]

Not really this got broken down years ago when he was a Raider. Of the top of my head it was around these high level points:
4,000-4500 yards a season which isn’t bad.

But here is where the problem starts:
- his TD production per year is actually fairly low he averages around 24 TD passes a season. That would have been fine but Herbert and Mahomes were throwing for 10+ more than him.

INTs- last season with the Raiders he had something like 14 in addition to seven lost fumbles or so. In other words almost as many turnovers as TDS.

Another notable was going almost three years (I think it was 2018-2020) with 2 TD games as a maximum. That right nothing about 2 for three seasons it was puzzling.

Then add to this his myriad of issues: lack of vision on the field, hearing phantom steps, fumbling the ball out of the end zone, propensity to throw the ball away with the game in the line (happened). What are you left with and these aren’t even all his flaws.

He’s one of the most fascinating QBs ever because he has almost every physical tool but is lacking in the mental and processing part. I’m convinced he literally does not see the field that well. Or at best struggles with initial reads 2 progressions.

There he never been a QB I can think of outside of Joey Harrington with the Lions who has gotten such leeway. Even then the Lions were smart to pull the plug after 5, took the Raiders almost 10.

Hey maybe he gets it in 2025. Is anyone going to stake a lot on that? I sure wouldn’t.

Comparing him to Mahomes and Herbert is ridiculous. No one is arguing he is an elite QB, those are $60M a year players.

You are just making stuff up at this point.

His last with the Raiders he only had 4 fumbles. You might be talking his last full season, 2021 when he had his career high in fumbles, but he also had his career high in yards with 4800 and led the Raiders to a 10-6 record pretty much all by himself after they fired Gruden.

In 2018 he had a 4 TD game against browns week 4, a 3 TD game against the colts week 8 (also a rushing touchdown that game), and a 3 TD game against KC week 13.

In 2019, they moved the team to Vegas, but he had no WR. They traded for Antonio Brown but he never played a down for them he had a 3 TD game against Houston Week 8.

in 2020 he had 3 - 3 touchdown games, one against us in week 2, Against KC in week 5, and against the Jets week 13 where he also had a rushing TD.

So you are just making up phony false stats to down the dude.