Green Bay shows where the Saints royally screwed up (2 Viewers)

[Saintman2884]

It's better to lose an aging HOF QB early than to use multiple and future 1st rd picks on players who don't pan out for a shot that never appears.

FWIW, I lost a good bit of respect for Drew. He could have handled it better and it appears may have stayed a year too long just so Brady didn't come here for a year. Drew knew his arm was washed but returned long enough to ruin that shot. It got Tampa a ring too.

This man you supposedly lost a lot of respect for gave us our first (and only) SB to date, was that SB’s MVP, was the centerpiece of the most glorious, successful era in Saints history and you want to nit-pick criticize him for wanting to retire on his own terms. He’s the NFL’s second all-time leading career passing yards leader, he gave his body, mind, and soul for this team, City of New Orleans and franchise for over 15 years, he’s almost sacrosanct, and for good reason. He left it all out on the field that he has to throw the football with his sons with his left arm now, and when that story came out here on SR a few weeks ago, their were still a few smug butt crevasses on here who disrespected Brees significantly.

I think it’s important to remind you and other posters what he did before you come on here and say you’ve lost a lot of respect for a man who was our Dan Marino.

 

[SweetT]

How does a team that had an aging, near-40 QB go three straight years without drafting a high-round QB to start developing under him? And how does that same team then go another three years after said QB's retirement and still not draft a QB to develop?

Look at Green Bay. They beat the Chiefs last night and are in the playoff hunt with a young QB who sat on the bench for three years learning. Jordan Love hasn't been unbelievable this season, but he's steadily improved, and it looks like Green Bay was able to transition to another franchise QB without even having a down year.

What do we have? We have a twice-concussed QB who is average on his good days and another guy who might as well be throwing to the other team half the time because he's so inaccurate.

Looking back, I'm just dumbfounded that we didn't make a move to get a QB to develop under Brees. Now, that opportunity is gone, and whoever we do eventually draft will have massive expectations and will likely have to start his first season. That lowers the probability of him succeeding.

In short, we royally screwed this up. I don't get it at all.

I think it’s bc SP knew 100% that he was not going to end his career in New Orleans. He knew that he had little chance at another shot at glory, being that Gayle doesn’t have the kind of “pull” or “voice”, in the owners room, that he needs. He pretty much said that already when speaking about the Waltons. He kept just freely throwing picks away, being hell bent on trying to get us that last ring.

 

[Saintman2884]

I think it’s bc SP knew 100% that he was not going to end his career in New Orleans. He knew that he had no chance being that Gayle doesn’t have the kind of “pull” or “voice”, in the owners room, that he needs. He pretty much said that already when speaking about the Waltons. He kept just freely throwing picks away, trying to get us that last ring.

We had our best shot with Mahomes and the Chiefs beat us to the punch. If we had drafted Mahomes and he has 40% of the same success here as he’s had with KC, Payton never “loses his love for the game” and quits regardless of Gayle is the owner or not.

 

[Tapxe]

This man you supposedly lost a lot of respect for gave us our first (and only) SB to date, was that SB’s MVP, was the centerpiece of the most glorious, successful era in Saints history and you want to nit-pick criticize him for wanting to retire on his own terms. He’s the NFL’s second all-time leading career passing yards leader, he gave his body, mind, and soul for this team, City of New Orleans and franchise for over 15 years, he’s almost sacrosanct, and for good reason. He left it all out on the field that he has to throw the football with his sons with his left arm now, and when that story came out here on SR a few weeks ago, their were still a few smug butt crevasses on here who disrespected Brees significantly.

I think it’s important to remind you and other posters what he did before you come on here and say you’ve lost a lot of respect for a man who was our Dan Marino.

He's a man who got paid to do a job. He did it well, but that doesn't make him perfect.

So yes, I lost respect for him because I don't idolize people.

 

[SweetT]

We had our best shot with Mahomes and the Chiefs beat us to the punch. If we had drafted Mahomes and he has 40% of the same success here as he’s had with KC, Payton never “loses his love for the game” and quits regardless of Gayle is the owner or not.

SP never lost his love for the game. Plus, it was his big mouth, that was the reason for us not getting Mahomes. SP couldn’t shut up about Mahomes’ workout in interviews. All he had to say was (in his SP lingo) “Look, Mahomes had an amazing workout, relative to all of the other workouts from other QBs”. “He would be a fine player to draft and I’m sure that he will have success in our league”. “However, we have a guy by the name of Drew Brees and he’s been pretty darn great for our ball club and he’s still playing at an elite level”.

That’s it. That’s all he had to do was be a politician and not a dang fanboy. Never tip your hand unless you have the #1 overall pick. Myself as a fan, should not know this better than SP.

 

[mr.t]

We chose to gamble it all for another shot at a championship.

Which you could argue should have paid off in 2019 but... ya know...

A lot of people were concerned about this dumb philosophy. Drew was great but he wasn't himself for about a year and a half.

 

[BoNcHiE]

We drafted multiple QBs when we had Brees and even traded for Bridgewater. None of them panned out and Brees stayed longer while Teddy wanted a starting gig.

Drafting a couple of QBs in the mid-rounds and signing Teddy Bridgewater is not what I'm talking about.

Look at every playoff team this year and count the 1st and 2nd round QBs.

 

[No2DC]

Brees was all-in on Mahomes. According to Loomis and Payton, Brees was the one who told them to draft a QB after the 2016 season because he was starting to seriously consider retirement. Loomis said Brees not only knew about their interest in Mahomes, but was excited to have him on the team.

Just look at how Brees handled the end of his career in the playoff loss. Tears in his eyes, but he clearly tells Winston "this is your team now". Brees has always wanted his successor to be successful.

This is not directed toward Drew, and I'm so tired the Mahomes shoulda coulda, but I don't think you should wait or need your QBs input on that decision because once you do it, you basically put your starter on the clock toward leaving or retirement. For all the talk of Mahomes, I don't think we ever took seriously the idea of drafting a QB high because I think Payton felt more comfortable with rehabbing a vet than coaching up a rook. I say this because I think Teddy was the model he tried to follow with Winston. "Let me get a young guy who hasn't reached their potential and coach him up."

 

[Saintman2884]

He's a man who got paid to do a job. He did it well, but that doesn't make him perfect.

So yes, I lost respect for him because I don't idolize people.

Forgive me if I do because compared to who or what we had before Brees, we only scant success and were hardly a SB contender. I shouldn’t apologize to you or anyone else that I “idolize” a man WHO COMPLETELY changed how the perception of this team was and refuse to discard him now because I still appreciate what he did for a city, franchise and a team I love.

It’s not just about “idolizing” someone or “perfection” it’s about appreciation and being proud of how someone like Brees had a enormous role in making us proud to be Saints fans for the longest period in our lives. I’m not the only one on this board who feels this way even if some of them felt he should have retired 1-2 seasons earlier.

 

[Cage1]

We made a decision for a risky pass rusher instead of a franchise QB in 2018 and history will show we made the right call. When Cam is ready to retire, Devenport will be ready to slide right in there and lead the defense. He's still on the roster, right?

 

[Saint Jack]

I know people hate Cowherd, but I think he had an interesting take.
GB is really forced into drafting well and developing QBs on their own.
They don’t get FAs because it’s not a city. It’s a small town.

 

[The Unrest Cure]

The franchise's big issue over the last few years is stability vs incumbency. While our FO has been stable, it has also - even with some degree of minor turnover - been remarkably incumbent; our stability is from utilizing known coaching/FO assets that are familiar with the "culture". The bonus of this is that your franchise has known and valid quantities in charge. The price for this is a lack of opposing voices, which is best (worst?) manifested by an inability to course correct or properly self-examine one's deficiencies. The perfect example for this is Dennis Allen's rhetorical "keep chopping wood".

The NFL is small world, in the end. Coaches and staff are recycled endlessly through the teams and the league (as a whole) is remarkably conservative. While you don't want your team becoming the Carolina Panthers and jettisoning staff and core vision year after year, you also cannot afford to value stability over development, or you turn into the Saints and Patriots. I think Sean Payton understood the structural limits of the Saints and recognized he had hit his limits here and that the team was becoming an echo chamber (which is, to a large extent, a natural evolution after long-term success). Some corrections were made by bringing in new faces for talent evaluating but that has not been enough. We are now stably mediocre. We won't get better until the front office recognizes these limits. And we are not there yet.

 

[Saintman2884]

The franchise's big issue over the last few years is stability vs incumbency. While our FO has been stable, it has also - even with some degree of minor turnover - been remarkably incumbent; our stability is from utilizing known coaching/FO assets that are familiar with the "culture". The bonus of this is that your franchise has known and valid quantities in charge. The price for this is a lack of opposing voices, which is best (worst?) manifested by an inability to course correct or properly self-examine one's deficiencies. The perfect example for this is Dennis Allen's rhetorical "keep chopping wood".

The NFL is small world, in the end. Coaches and staff are recycled endlessly through the teams and the league (as a whole) is remarkably conservative. While you don't want your team becoming the Carolina Panthers and jettisoning staff and core vision year after year, you also cannot afford to value stability over development, or you turn into the Saints and Patriots. I think Sean Payton understood the structural limits of the Saints and recognized he had hit his limits here and that the team was becoming an echo chamber (which is, to a large extent, a natural evolution after long-term success). Some corrections were made by bringing in new faces for talent evaluating but that has not been enough. We are now stably mediocre. We won't get better until the front office recognizes these limits. And we are not there yet.

That still doesn’t absolve Payton of his bullshirt, “I’m burned out” when he really wasn’t routine. He was burned out alright, he was tired of coaching here in New Orleans.

“Burned out” is Dick Vermeil working himself to mental exhaustion, sleeping in his office for weeks and not seeing his family, having a literal nervous breakdown not being able to get out of his forking reserved car space at Eagles offices one morning because he was so over-worked the last week of the 1982 strike-shortened season, he retires and doesn’t coach again for 15 years.

Or John Madden’s case after the 1978 season, working for a demanding, maniacal, Machiavellian owner who ran him mentally and physically into the ground or how he was troubled how the New England Patriots treated a newly paralyzed Darryl Stingley like old, discarded meet when they tried to cancel his NFL medical insurance policy.

Those are great examples of truly being burned out, which Sean Payton wasn’t. He just “wanted out” and said some stupid things along the way thinking or not really caring if anyone called him out on it.

Then there’s the Nathaniel Hackett controversy via SI in training camp. Shall I re-tell that sordid story too?

 

[stadanko]

Lamar hurts the most to me because every pundit assumed we were trading up for him. It's not just hindsight. Most people thought that would have been the right move.

 

[gregh]

How does a team that had an aging, near-40 QB go three straight years without drafting a high-round QB to start developing under him? And how does that same team then go another three years after said QB's retirement and still not draft a QB to develop?

Look at Green Bay. They beat the Chiefs last night and are in the playoff hunt with a young QB who sat on the bench for three years learning. Jordan Love hasn't been unbelievable this season, but he's steadily improved, and it looks like Green Bay was able to transition to another franchise QB without even having a down year.

What do we have? We have a twice-concussed QB who is average on his good days and another guy who might as well be throwing to the other team half the time because he's so inaccurate.

Looking back, I'm just dumbfounded that we didn't make a move to get a QB to develop under Brees. Now, that opportunity is gone, and whoever we do eventually draft will have massive expectations and will likely have to start his first season. That lowers the probability of him succeeding.

In short, we royally screwed this up. I don't get it at all.

well i think they tried under payton but KC jumped them.