Homeless situation.... (2 Viewers)

[crosswatt]

Would this plan for providing housing include illegal aliens, like the plan for providing healthcare for all?

Because if we do that, it seems kind of obvious that we are going to attract more illegal aliens. The U.S. will become the Portland/SF of the world.

Well, to address your fetish like obsession with this one aspect of the discussion, sure. I mean, that way ICE could much more easily find and deport the ones who are a problem in terms of crime and who aren't gong to be considered for asylum or any path to permanent residency. The Immigration courts could have an address to send their summons to. Employers would have a location to fill the square in the 1099 forms and Social Security would know where to send their yearly statements. The kids would be normalized into a permanent school setting allowing them to socialize with other students and assimilate to the American culture. Home Health Care workers would be able to track the children and make sure their immunization was up to date.
The savings on all of the administrative costs issues above would more than cover the costs of that particular aspect of the program.

Does that work? Can you stop the attempt to thread jack this into a purely political discussion of a separate issue now?

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I get that, but last year, only 11 states gave more to the federal government than they received back, which means that 39 states are in a yearly deficit situation. And my opinion is that most of them should set up their own program to get permanent housing established for their particular population of homelessness, and then increase that deficit that single year, to hopefully decrease it in subsequent years. I'm not necessarily speaking about a federal takeover of how the states handle the issue, but the reality is that it's going to cost way more than any state could reasonably expect to afford, so federal money will have to be involved.

I think Los Angeles spends between $500-$600M annually on their homeless programs and the situation is still getting worse. I really don't think money (or lack of public spending) is the issue. I don't even think there is a deficit of generousness of spirit - at least not in how these policies are set up.

It's sort of like Orleans Parish schools - its not per pupil funding that's the problem.

I'm fine with less aid to Israel or whatever but putting another $100M on the table in LA for next year's budget is unlikely to fix the problem if its just going into whatever mix of programs they currently have in place

 

[crosswatt]

I think Los Angeles spends between $500-$600M annually on their homeless programs and the situation is still getting worse. I really don't think money (or lack of public spending) is the issue. I don't even think there is a deficit of generousness of spirit - at least not in how these policies are set up.

It's sort of like Orleans Parish schools - its not per pupil funding that's the problem.

I'm fine with less aid to Israel or whatever but putting another $100M on the table in LA for next year's budget is unlikely to fix the problem if its just going into whatever mix of programs they currently have in place

Yes. More money isn't going to fix it. But trying some different tactics might. If we can all admit that it's a problem we really don't want to fool with, but needs addressing, and let some methods that seem to be working in other areas have a shot with proper funding levels, it is a possibility that it becomes a much less pressing issue in the future.

I think someone said we are currently sitting at 6-1 in terms of housing surplus right now? Part of the funding is already just sitting there, burning a hole through a contractor or landlord's savings.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

FWIW this is an old but I think still valid piece from PBS from 1995 about the effects of deinstitutionalization of mental health in the 60s-70s that I mentioned in an earlier post. Basically there are probably around 1 million people in the community today that would have been hospitalized on a more or less permanent basis 50 years ago. I think a large segment of that number make up the homeless population. Another large segment are in jail, which this piece describes in detail.

The law of unintended consequences is pretty much undefeated.

Deinstitutionalization - Special Reports | The New Asylums | FRONTLINE | PBS

There are certainly a lot of working poor among the homeless (especially in places like SF where a 1 BR studio is $4000/month) but there are also a lot of mentally ill that are not going to get much more integrated into society even with a free apartment.

 

[mjcouvi]

Stop having such a pleasant climate. You can pretty much live outside in L.A. all year round. Safest place to be homeless, weather wise.

 

[Tapxe]

Because, as a former soldier you know, it comes down to discipline. You can have that lifestyle. It may take a while. It may even take a massive amount of work and ingenuity. But it’s possible.

But surely we haven’t gone from Wal Mart not paying even a livable wage, to why can’t everyone be a multi-millionaire?

Do you honestly believe that Donald Trump would be able to have billions and be the President because of his discipline and work ethic? That if he'd not been gifted by inheritance he'd still be a self made billionaire?

If not, then you have to admit that discipline and work ethic are only parts of the equation.

 

[farfromsilent]

Do you honestly believe that Donald Trump would be able to have billions and be the President because of his discipline and work ethic? That if he'd not been gifted by inheritance he'd still be a self made billionaire?

If not, then you have to admit that discipline and work ethic are only parts of the equation.

Of course it is only part of the equation. I think what you and a few others are doing is minimizing the degree to which discipline and work ethic play a roll in that equation.

Just because he received an inheritance, does not mean that he has poor discipline in his work life or poor work ethic. He was given that seed money, but he easily could have squandered that money and ended up an every day joe like the rest of us. You see it all the time with people who became rich (not even talking about lottery winners here) and lost all of their money due to bad investments. I know he has had to file bankruptcies, but there are very few successful business people who haven't had to file for bankruptcy. We need to stop acting as though it is some kind of crime for parents to pass on money they earned to their children. That's what most of us work for after all. To make our children's lives better.

 

[MTDB1983]

I'm curious, have you seen any legitimate studies and spent real time investigating the effectiveness of such things or is this just a statement based on gut feel and repeating what you heard somewhere?

Studying the efficacy of systems they are taken advantage of and systems that are meant to assist but enable poverty? Or am I going off gut?

I don’t need studies to tell me that I wouldn’t support such things. And I can’t see who would.

 

[farfromsilent]

My issue with it is that it's just unrealistic. Like, they aren't going to work for themselves as it is. Why would they work for someone else of a farm? We need to address the underlying issues as to why they won't participate in the economy, and see if we can foster a course change for those able. That's why having a place to find them at I think would be advantageous and help boost the success rates that are so low right now.

It would work for those that want to work, but have got so down on their luck that they have become homeless. I think some people need to be reminded of how rewarding it is to work for a living. If they are getting food and a modest wage for their labors, that could be the push in the right direction they need.

 

[MTDB1983]

Do you honestly believe that Donald Trump would be able to have billions and be the President because of his discipline and work ethic? That if he'd not been gifted by inheritance he'd still be a self made billionaire?

If not, then you have to admit that discipline and work ethic are only parts of the equation.

For some people. For others it was absolutely hard work and discipline. There are thousands of self-made millionaires.

I don’t need the odds to me in my favor. I just need a chance. This beloved team that you follow so fervently, these New Orleans Saints, I would be willing to bet that nearly every one of them share these sentiments.

 

[Cage1]

For some people. For others it was absolutely hard work and discipline. There are thousands of self-made millionaires.

My way of putting it is: Luck, hard work, intelligence - pick two.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Studying the efficacy of systems they are taken advantage of and systems that are meant to assist but enable poverty? Or am I going off gut?

I don’t need studies to tell me that I wouldn’t support such things. And I can’t see who would.

we had that
we spent gobs of money on a program to drug test welfare recipients
what we found was that that program was a complete waste of money

what we should get away from is wielding a moral cudgel to say who deserves to be poor and whom we should rescue
just look at homelessness as a drain of resources and that fixing homelessness is good cost benefit analysis and leave moral arguments for whether or not Toronto Raptors fans are 'good'

 

[MTDB1983]

Studying the efficacy of systems they are taken advantage of and systems that are meant to assist but enable poverty? Or am I going off gut?

I don’t need studies to tell me that I wouldn’t support such things. And I can’t see who would.

This is when you know we’ve reached a point where one side is not respecting the diversity of ideas.

I am being facepalmed for saying that I would not support programs that are taken advantage of and that enable poverty. This is the twilight zone.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

For some people. For others it was absolutely hard work and discipline. There are thousands of self-made millionaires.

I don’t need the odds to me in my favor. I just need a chance. This beloved team that you follow so fervently, these New Orleans Saints, I would be willing to bet that nearly every one of them share these sentiments.

c'mon think about your arguments
this is the 2nd time you've torpedoed yourself
90 people come into camp - 54 stay
that means 46 pack their bags (and those 46 are really fighting over maybe 14 spots)
those 46 just lacked the hard work & discipline
the 1000s of college players who did not get drafted lacked the hard work & discipline
the players who made the team last year but will get cut all of a sudden forget to work and become undisciplined?

 

[gwballin]

So now I rationalize poor peoples suffering. And I don’t advocate for ANY policies that help the poor. Are you guys actually reading what you’re saying?

All I did was ask some questions.

Based on your response, I hope that one day you legitimately open your heart to the All Mighty so that he can replace the anger and pain that currently reside there with compassion and understanding.

You were a kid, it wasn’t your fault.

You’re wasting your time with hate and contempt instead of experiencing the healthy existence worthy of a human being.

It’s never to late to be a good man.