Saints I’m a homer: Guilty as charged. But this vid gave me a HARD dose of reality! (2 Viewers)

[RJS]

Total and utter BS.....Losing team? The 2021 Saints were 9-8 despite a record number of games missed by starters and 4 different starting QB's .......If that team is healthy (under CSP) they likely win 11-13 games.....

I simply can't respect these kind of BS prop up DA type takes.....

CSP deserves a ton of credit for keeping that team together in the face of significant adversity. He had a horrible offense do a good job at not turning the ball over.

However, that team won football games on the strength of a defense that ranked 4th in points allowed. Even accounting for injuries that team was severely lacking at offensive skill positions.

 

[jahsoul357]

CSP deserves a ton of credit for keeping that team together in the face of significant adversity. He had a horrible offense do a good job at not turning the ball over.

However, that team won football games on the strength of a defense that ranked 4th in points allowed. Even accounting for injuries that team was severely lacking at offensive skill positions.

We were top 10 in offensive scores per game and 13th in scoring offense before our 5 game losing streak began.

*edit*
Crap, even through that, we were still top 10 in offensive scores per game...lol. Most of that just came in the 4th quarter and It fell off a cliff after the Eagles game.

 

[RJS]

We were top 10 in offensive scores per game and 13th in scoring offense before our 5 game losing streak began.

And the defense took the ball away 13 times in those first 7 games. The offense had a lot of short fields to work with.

 

[BelowZero]

Little late to the thread, but this guy has had it out for the Saints for quite a while now. He's made several videos with at least a mention of how the team is in dire straits.

If I recall, I remember him saying the Vikings were his team at one point. Which would make a lot of sense.

 

[jahsoul357]

And the defense took the ball away 13 times in those first 7 games. The offense had a lot of short fields to work with.

But the vast majority of our TD scoring drives didn't come from turnovers.

First 7 games, our average Yards per TD Drive was 57.6 yards per drive and I believe that only 6/21 TDs came with a short field from turnovers.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Total and utter BS.....Losing team? The 2021 Saints were 9-8 despite a record number of games missed by starters and 4 different starting QB's .......If that team is healthy (under CSP) they likely win 11-13 games.....

I simply can't respect these kind of BS prop up DA type takes.....

Saints lacking skill talent and depth from Payton’s last year isn’t BS at all. 5 wins of the 2021 9-8 record came in the first 7 games. The team went 4-6 after Winston was out for the season. Saints didn’t get their 6th win until Week 14, 6 weeks after their 5th win in Week 8.
If Payton started the season with Siemian at QB, no chance the Saints would be better than 7-10/8-9.

Allen inherited an injured QB who no longer had his top offensive coach to continue putting him in position to be successful with his strengths as a QB.

Saints 2021 WRs were practically a Practice Squad. None of those WRs are starters or primary contributors on any team today. No receiving threat at TE at the time. Our best OL Armstead left in FA just before Allen’s first season. Kamara was our only good skill position talent in 2021. There’s largely no offensive talent to speak of when Taysom in QB power was our best offensive playmaker from Payton’s team.

95% of our best talent was on the defensive side which were all players developed by Allen as DC outside of Cam. The playmakers and depth at WR, TE, and RB on the 2024 Saints didn’t arrive until Allen took over. Johnson splashed at TE in Allen’s first year. Payton was able to be successful with UDFA-over the hill talent at WR and RB for a while because he’s one of the best offensive coaches in the league. It was amazing that he got by for so long just off of his genius and having a HOF QB. The lack of skill position talent eventually caught up to the team once the Payton-less offensive staff in 2022 actually needed talent to win games.

 

[sfidc3]

CSP deserves a ton of credit for keeping that team together in the face of significant adversity. He had a horrible offense do a good job at not turning the ball over.

However, that team won football games on the strength of a defense that ranked 4th in points allowed. Even accounting for injuries that team was severely lacking at offensive skill positions.

Yup, coach of the year that year IMO.....

Saints lacking skill talent and depth from Payton’s last year isn’t BS at all. 5 wins of the 2021 9-8 record came in the first 7 games. The team went 4-6 after Winston was out for the season. Saints didn’t get their 6th win until Week 14, 6 weeks after their 5th win in Week 8.
If Payton started the season with Siemian at QB, no chance the Saints would be better than 7-10/8-9.

Allen inherited an injured QB who no longer had his top offensive coach to continue putting him in position to be successful with his strengths as a QB.

Saints 2021 WRs were practically a Practice Squad. None of those WRs are starters or primary contributors on any team today. No receiving threat at TE at the time. Our best OL Armstead left in FA just before Allen’s first season. Kamara was our only good skill position talent in 2021. There’s largely no offensive talent to speak of when Taysom in QB power was our best offensive playmaker from Payton’s team.

95% of our best talent was on the defensive side which were all players developed by Allen as DC outside of Cam. The playmakers and depth at WR, TE, and RB on the 2024 Saints didn’t arrive until Allen took over. Johnson splashed at TE in Allen’s first year. Payton was able to be successful with UDFA-over the hill talent at WR and RB for a while because he’s one of the best offensive coaches in the league. It was amazing that he got by for so long just off of his genius and having a HOF QB. The lack of skill position talent eventually caught up to the team once the Payton-less offensive staff in 2022 actually needed talent to win games.

I never said they had a great roster but a good enough roster that had it been healthy it undoubtedly would have been a playoff team.....and some of those offensive holes were filled with the next draft, which because Jeff Ireland and company remained probably wouldn't have been much different, if at all, had CSP stayed.....

DA bungled the JW situation so badly I'm not sure if he was not healthy at all, healthy enough to play or DA just favored AD over him....period....

What your post illustrates to me is the CSP is very capable of doing more....with less.....and DA clearly needs more to just go 9-8 despite having a gift of an easy schedule... .

 

[Dean in L.A.]

It's a decent assessment, the Saints in 2023 were a mediocre team at best. Could they be better in '24, well sure of course, just as many teams could be that return man of the same players. The head coach is a great defensive coordinator and we have brought in some POTENTIALLY major improvements to the offensive coaching staff. Our division is potentially improved as well, certainly from the Failclowns. There are concerns at the top 3 spots, GM, head coach, and QB. Still they could EASILY win the division this season. The issue I have is I'd like to see a bigger focus on the long term future as opposed to what is best for next season. I think Loomis can be and has been a great GM. I'd just like to see him take a step back and set us up for the future as opposed to just next season. Maybe it's time for the Saints to be the team that trades a 2nd rounder for next year's first, or this year's first for a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Give us some ammo for the future while still maintaining some ability now.

 

[St. Widge]

Yup, coach of the year that year IMO.....



I never said they had a great roster but a good enough roster that had it been healthy it undoubtedly would have been a playoff team.....and some of those offensive holes were filled with the next draft, which because Jeff Ireland and company remained probably wouldn't have been much different, if at all, had CSP stayed.....

DA bungled the JW situation so badly I'm not sure if he was not healthy at all, healthy enough to play or DA just favored AD over him....period....

What your post illustrates to me is the CSP is very capable of doing more....with less.....and DA clearly needs more to just go 9-8 despite having a gift of an easy schedule... .

I mean, Payton is a great coach and he can do more with less on the offensive side, but it really helped him that he had a future HoF QB for all but the last year of his tenure here. Brees masked the lack of skill player talent and made a less than great OL in his later years look better than they were. So, some of the doing more with less, especially at the skill positions, was Brees. I think Payton's ego let him go into that last year thinking he could scheme around still having no offensive talent but even he couldn't do that with no skill position talent and no Brees.

So, DA was left with a very bad roster on the offensive side of the ball and he compounded that by making a poor decision to hire PC as offensive coordinator and then doing a poor job of handling the Winston injury his first year. At the same point, we really had no QB, WRs, or LT when DA took over. And he did a poor job of handling that situation until he basically replaced the entire offensive staff this year.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Total and utter BS.....Losing team? The 2021 Saints were 9-8 despite a record number of games missed by starters and 4 different starting QB's .......If that team is healthy (under CSP) they likely win 11-13 games.....

I simply can't respect these kind of BS prop up DA type takes.....

Yes, you are right. Be well

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Yup, coach of the year that year IMO.....



I never said they had a great roster but a good enough roster that had it been healthy it undoubtedly would have been a playoff team.....and some of those offensive holes were filled with the next draft, which because Jeff Ireland and company remained probably wouldn't have been much different, if at all, had CSP stayed.....

DA bungled the JW situation so badly I'm not sure if he was not healthy at all, healthy enough to play or DA just favored AD over him....period....

What your post illustrates to me is the CSP is very capable of doing more....with less.....and DA clearly needs more to just go 9-8 despite having a gift of an easy schedule... .

It showed that Payton produced a similar win % as Allen when Payton also didn’t have a capable QB.
Payton 4-6 (.400) to Allen 7-10 (.412).
With a competent QB, Payton made UDFA level skill talent look decent. Once the installed QB was injured, Payton went 0-5 with Siemian and the lack of RB-WR depth was severely exposed in traditional sets. He eventually rallied with Taysom’s formation under center full time at the end of 2021. The offense was successful with primarily centering everything around TH’s strengths but the ball wasn’t getting into the hands of receivers much because there wasn’t any Saints WR depth in Payton’s last year.

The same level of play at QB pre-Taysom ending 2021 stretch, post Jameis injury, was carried over into 2022. WR depth improved a lot in Allen’s first year but QB stayed the same or declined while Winston was still injured and playing a limited Dalton as a fallback plan. The WR depth improvement came from Allen’s rookies Olave and Shaheed. Thomas was still injured and began showing early signs of being damaged goods by that point. There wasn’t a offensive talent inheritance at QB, WR, & TE from 2021 at all.
Allen inherited AK, Taysom and 3 good OL.
There was little to no talent at the two most important positions in the pass offense going into Allen’s first HC year.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It showed that Payton produced a similar win % as Allen when Payton also didn’t have a capable QB.
Payton 4-6 (.400) to Allen 7-10 (.412).
With a competent QB, Payton made UDFA level skill talent look decent. Once the installed QB was injured, Payton went 0-5 with Siemian and the lack of RB-WR depth was severely exposed in traditional sets. He eventually rallied with Taysom’s formation under center full time at the end of 2021. The offense was successful with primarily centering everything around TH’s strengths but the ball wasn’t getting into the hands of receivers much because there wasn’t any Saints WR depth in Payton’s last year.

The same level of play at QB pre-Taysom ending 2021 stretch, post Jameis injury, was carried over into 2022. WR depth improved a lot in Allen’s first year but QB stayed the same or declined while Winston was still injured and playing a limited Dalton as a fallback plan. The WR depth improvement came from Allen’s rookies Olave and Shaheed. Thomas was still injured and began showing early signs of being damaged goods by that point. There wasn’t a offensive talent inheritance at QB, WR, & TE from 2021 at all.
Allen inherited AK, Taysom and 3 good OL while losing the best OL in FA.

I commend your effort, but logic and reason won't win a debate where your opposition is entrenched in disdain or dislike, because it's emotion based. The posters don't "feel" DA is a good coach and that feeling won't change until he proves he's a good coach. That proof requires wins and he doesn't have enough under his belt to support you're counter.

you're head will explode if you continue...eats a grape and steps back into shadows.

 

[jahsoul357]

It showed that Payton produced a similar win % as Allen when Payton also didn’t have a capable QB.
Payton 4-6 (.400) to Allen 7-10 (.412).
With a competent QB, Payton made UDFA level skill talent look decent. Once the installed QB was injured, Payton went 0-5 with Siemian and the lack of RB-WR depth was severely exposed in traditional sets. He eventually rallied with Taysom’s formation under center full time at the end of 2021. The offense was successful with primarily centering everything around TH’s strengths but the ball wasn’t getting into the hands of receivers much because there wasn’t any Saints WR depth in Payton’s last year.

The same level of play at QB pre-Taysom ending 2021 stretch, post Jameis injury, was carried over into 2022. WR depth improved a lot in Allen’s first year but QB stayed the same or declined while Winston was still injured and playing a limited Dalton as a fallback plan. The WR depth improvement came from Allen’s rookies Olave and Shaheed. Thomas was still injured and began showing early signs of being damaged goods by that point. There wasn’t a offensive talent inheritance at QB, WR, & TE from 2021 at all.
Allen inherited AK, Taysom and 3 good OL while losing the best OL in FA.

Something that I've always said and believe is that in 2022, on paper, we had the better team. On the surface, we drafted well, we did well in free agency, and CGM was coming back healthy. The first 3 quarters of the Falcons game told me all that I needed to know about the season. How could an offense that was miles better, on paper, regress?

But I can't say that he necessarily inherited a losing team because we technically went 9-8 and he improved the team personnel wise...lol. What became painfully clear was the chasm between CSP and DA/Sneaky Pete. For me, I ask the question, if Sean Payton had the "Day 1" 2022 starters, where do I think we would have finished the season?

 

[RJS]

Yup, coach of the year that year IMO.....



I never said they had a great roster but a good enough roster that had it been healthy it undoubtedly would have been a playoff team.....and some of those offensive holes were filled with the next draft, which because Jeff Ireland and company remained probably wouldn't have been much different, if at all, had CSP stayed.....

DA bungled the JW situation so badly I'm not sure if he was not healthy at all, healthy enough to play or DA just favored AD over him....period....

What your post illustrates to me is the CSP is very capable of doing more....with less.....and DA clearly needs more to just go 9-8 despite having a gift of an easy schedule... .

If only there was some alternate reality where Sean Payton was coaching another team and had a desperate need for a staring QB and Jameis was available...

 

[Saint KayBee]

I would say they are fair points except #2. I would say that D. Carr is an Ok QB. But in order for that statement to be accurate either Carr has to be an awful QB or we had to pay him like a better than good QB.

But the truth is he is probably underpaid for his very average QB performance. How can that be IceHot, we are paying him a lot and not getting much? Well let me break it down for ya...

My understanding is that DC has a Base Salary of $82.7m, $57.3m prorated signing bonus, roster bonus of $10m, Guaranteed Salary of $12.7m, and a cap hit of $150m which extends from 2023 to 2028.

From what I can tell almost every team in the NFL either has a QB with a more expensive contract than DCs or they have a QB taking the primary snaps that is still on his rookie deal. With the only notable exceptions potentially being Jacoby Brissett with the Pats, Mayfield with the Bucs, Minshew with the Colts, Darnold with the Vikings, and Mariota with the WFT.

Seems to me like we are actually paying him to be a bottom tier fill-in or prove it QB and getting a bit better of a return on that.

I’ve mentioned this here before, but I think a lot of people are still stuck on the 5 year/$100 million contract Brees signed twelve years ago. Brees’ subsequent contracts weren’t as splashworthy so their details often get missed by the average Saints fan, but I do feel like there’s a certain sort of eye test failure that happens when trying to make Carr’s “superior” 4 year/$150 million contract compute. “That’s more than what Brees got!” goes the refrain, with no understanding that the numbers for QBs have just gotten bigger now. Carr’s contract didn’t reset the market; at the most, it raised the floor in a way it would have even if it were $30 million lower.

Some quarterback was going to get that money; the Jameis Winston prove-it contracts he signed would have had to cash out eventually, or some other free agent signee would have been brought in. The team hasn’t been bad enough to draft a top QB since the year Kansas City jumped ahead for Patrick Mahomes. If the team still believes in itself enough, or believes enough in wanting to keep giving the fans a winner, to never truly bottom out - that’s a good problem to have, so long as they make good on the belief. These last two seasons fell the shortest bit off the mark, so I’m hoping this is the season it all comes together and blossoms into some playoff success.