In defense of Allen (gulp) (1 Viewer)

[Trey W.]

1) This is Gayles boat. If its a rebuild, Mickey needs to go too. He hired Allen, he is the personnel guy. We have had 2 seasons with a bunch of paper champions on the inactive list. When you hunt for guys in the draft trying to be the smartest person in the room, or looking for bargains in the draft, FA and resigning due to injury history - you cant be too shocked when you have players who continue their injury history. We have 3 first round picks in 2 small school, raw DE's and they have a half a sack between them. 1 of them doesnt even get to wear a uniform on Sundays. Then theres the TE situation. The RB2 situation. QB. Andrus Peat. Pete Carmichael. You look up and down this roster and its Loomis decisions. He got credit for building the Saints, he should get just as much blame for the roster, draft and cap situation.

2) We were the LAST destination for new coaches in 2006. Maybe historically last. But regardless of how bad the situation is, there are only 32 of these jobs on earth and only about 6 on average are open each year. You go out and find the right guy, and dont settle on an in house guy who had an 8-28 career record on his resume.

 

[Nolan]

Dennis Allen ain't even close to being it. It's pretty terrible. Unfortunately, he'll probably win enough games to stick around for another year. But he's an awful head coach. I don't care about the injuries, I don't care about the QB situation. I've seen enough to know that this is what he'll always be. A dud.

An absolutely lazy hire thinking that he could carry on and continue Sean Payton's system. I voiced my reluctance over it after Sean retired and it's proving to be true. Yea, it was nice and all during camp and pre-season. Guys saying the right things, but no bullets were flying. Now that he has to try and win real NFL games, we're seeing what he is. A terrible excuse for a head football coach. This is what he is, the guy shows zero potential for growth. It's the same story after every game. "Hey, look, we got a lot to clean up" -- OK dude. Sure.

The outstanding culture that Payton built is about to go bye-bye. Once the L's start to stack up, all that is out of the window. Putting DA and Pete Carmichael at the steering wheel to lead this football team were unforgivable moves. This team needed a new face and a real leader of men to start fresh after Sean's retiring. Every successful coach has an 'it' factor. Whether that's fire, emotion, innovation, motivation. Players need to fear you, respect you, and love you. There's SOMETHING in every single one. Dennis Allen has zero of those qualities. Loomis hired an emotionless head coach and thought we could win games by setting cruise control. Nahhhhhhhhh. This sucks, y'all.

 

[Sguill]

Sorry. But that’s just an excuse about the injuries. We’ve battled injuries the last decade, so this is nothing new. He cannot motivate the players to do the basic concepts of the game, he isn’t adjusting the defense which he is the play caller, and he isn’t utilizing what players we do have available-taysom and the end of the game. He plays the game not to lose when he should be playing to win.

He and loomis gave up our next years 1st when we don’t have an answer at QB for the foreseeable future. The team was fleeced by Philly. His defenses for the last 5 years have always found away to crush the fans in his defensive play calling at the end of games and giving up the big play that everyone else in the world knew what was about to happen.

No pass here, just and escort out the door.

I remembered when Loomis was chosen, many were saying that the was bean-counter, and then someone in their infinite wisdom decided that's what we needed as GM. It appears that what we got, these guys sold the farm for Sean Payton, and it basically paid off. We thought after the Supebowl victory we would become an elite team in the league, all we became was a coach with an eye on the record books, breaking records has a price and we are not done paying it.

 

[HouseCall]

When the food is bad - you blame the chef.

Even if the ingredients aren’t the best, organic, farm-raised, locally sourced ingredients - if you are the chef of one of 32 restaurants in the world then you better be able to make something edible.

The food has been bad.
The chef is to blame.

 

[SaintKenKen]

Good Lord. We got a ton of "Sky is Falling" fans but I've been around long enough to see the same ones call for Payton's head in Week 5 of rough seasons then are ready to build him a golden statue by week 16.

Good post OP. We'll be fine.

 

[boutte]

Ah, the tired old trope that the Raiders were a dumpster fire. What a worn out lazy thing to say, so lets look at the dumpster fire.

He was given a 3rd season, and started 0-4.

The last thing we want to talk about is facts though. Yes, DA was 8-28 with the dumpster fire. The 2 years before DA took over? the Raiders were 16-16. The 2 years after he left? 19-13.

2 years before DA - .500
2+ years with DA - .222
2 years after DA - .594

So both before and after he left, the Raiders were a .500+ organization. But just the Allen era they were a "total dumpster fire"

Maybe they should have given him more time to turn it around. In any case your take is weak and reactionary.

 

[44slayer]

Maybe they should have given him more time to turn it around. In any case your take is weak and reactionary.

A weak take based on facts. And yours is repeating the laziest of lazy takes with the Raiders being a dumpster fire - despite being a .500 or better club before and after he left.

You think the Raiders shouldve given 4-12, 4-12, 0-4 more time. Thats the weak take, 8-28 wouldve doomed anyone.

Matt Rhule just went 5-11, 5-12 and 1-4 (11-27) and got the axe. DA got the axe in the 4th game of his 3rd season, Rhule got it in the 5th game of his 3rd season and had 3 more wins.

More facts.

 

[boutte]

Good Lord. We got a ton of "Sky is Falling" fans but I've been around long enough to see the same ones call for Payton's head in Week 5 of rough seasons then are ready to build him a golden statue by week 16.

Good post OP. We'll be fine.

Maybe a rough year will clear the trolls and fair weather and band wagoners out of here. Especially the ones who followed Winston over and aren't really Saints fans. If Winston went away so would they. It's bad enough that they only care about JW but they incessantly have to trash any player who competes with him and any post praising any other QB. They wore the clown emoji down till it died. They're relentless.

Not that I want Winston to go. I still want to see what he can do when he's healthy. And far as firing a new coach after 6 games, that's just pure stupidity. But stupid is as stupid does.

 

[blackadder]

Already l am seeing a bunch of fire him threads, which l think is very unfair of some of us
Yesterday we without our starting quarterback, 3 starting wide receivers, pro bowl corner, first round pick tackle and lost our starting tight end ( who was actually playing pretty well ) early
We were still very competitive, the only team l see as beat up as us is the 49ers who lost to a pretty bad Atlanta team ( wonder if their fans are calling for their coaches heads ? )
We lost at least two games this season mainly due to awful referees
He did not put us in this cap mess, we went all in in previous years and it would be hard for any head coach to sign good free agents with the mess we are in
Give the guy a chance, a whole lot of things that are wrong right now are simply not his fault

I would say all things considered the game was tight so I give credit.

But with all the challenges you still question if he is the guy longer term, especially paired with Charmichael “leading” the offense.

 

[sfbaysaint]

I mean it took the old coach to call out the RBs. DA just doesn’t have a commanding personality, so the mistakes the Saints make keep happening because the Players don’t fear anything coming from DA. They knew SP would make them pay for fumbling and bad tackling. This coach walked off the field like he was confused.

Exactly... and Ingram pretty much said as much when being interviewed along with SP on Up with Kaye show. He said that if SP was there and they were fumbling.. things would be different.

 

[IlovemySaints]

Maybe a rough year will clear the trolls and fair weather and band wagoners out of here. Especially the ones who followed Winston over and aren't really Saints fans. If Winston went away so would they. It's bad enough that they only care about JW but they incessantly have to trash any player who competes with him and any post praising any other QB. They wore the clown emoji down till it died. They're relentless.

Not that I want Winston to go. I still want to see what he can do when he's healthy. And far as firing a new coach after 6 games, that's just pure stupidity. But stupid is as stupid does.

I don’t think many just followed the team for Jameis I believe most Jameis defenders on here has seen it like he’s being giving an unfair shake I mean the team has only won two games with both QBs and the one Winston one he showed and the one dalton one taysom showed
And I believe we all were rooting for the team last year throughout all the QB changes and we all love Taysom but some realize he throws poorly on deep balls for the most part while at the same time he has that fire we like

 

[boutte]

A weak take based on facts. And yours is repeating the laziest of lazy takes with the Raiders being a dumpster fire - despite being a .500 or better club before and after he left.

You think the Raiders shouldve given 4-12, 4-12, 0-4 more time. Thats the weak take, 8-28 wouldve doomed anyone.

Matt Rhule just went 5-11, 5-12 and 1-4 (11-27) and got the axe. DA got the axe in the 4th game of his 3rd season, Rhule got it in the 5th game of his 3rd season and had 3 more wins.

More facts.

Looks like a dumpster fire to me. In 12 years they were 3rd in the division 6 times. The other 6 they were 4th. Not one coach lasted 3 years.
Facts. But I suspect that you only care about the facts that fit your agenda.

2015	NFL	Oakland Raiders	7	9	0	3rd of 4	359	399	-40	Del Rio	Mack	Carr	Murray	Cooper	17	24	22	22	17	17	24	32	-2.5	2.3	-0.2	1.4	-1.6
2014	NFL	Oakland Raiders	3	13	0	4th of 4	253	452	-199	Sparano,Allen	Smith	Carr	McFadden	Holmes	31	32	32	21	32	32	30	32	-12.4	3.4	-9.0	-4.3	-4.7
2013	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	322	453	-131	Allen	Houston	Pryor	Jennings	Streater	24	23	29	22	27	29	24	32	-8.2	0.2	-8.0	-3.8	-4.2
2012	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	3rd of 4	290	443	-153	Allen	Palmer	Palmer	McFadden	Myers	26	18	28	18	23	29	17	32	-9.6	-1.3	-10.8	-4.6	-6.2
2011	NFL	Oakland Raiders	8	8	0	3rd of 4	359	433	-74	Jackson	Seymour	Palmer	Bush	Heyward-Bey	16	9	29	29	22	23	18	32	-4.6	-0.3	-4.9	0.2	-5.1
2010	NFL	Oakland Raiders	8	8	0	3rd of 4	410	371	39	Cable	McFadden	Campbell	McFadden	Miller	6	10	20	11	17	14	9	32	2.4	-2.3	0.2	2.3	-2.2
2009	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	3rd of 4	197	379	-182	Cable	Asomugha	Russell	Bush	Miller	31	31	23	26	30	30	31	32	-11.4	1.1	-10.3	-8.7	-1.6
2008	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	3rd of 4	263	388	-125	Cable,Kiffin	Asomugha	Russell	Fargas	Miller	29	29	24	27	15	28	29	32	-7.8	0.3	-7.5	-6.5	-1.0
2007	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	283	398	-115	Kiffin	Fargas	Culpepper	Fargas	Curry	23	25	26	22	28	28	26	32	-7.2	1.2	-6.0	-3.5	-2.5
2006	NFL	Oakland Raiders	2	14	0	4th of 4	168	332	-164	Shell	Asomugha	Walter	Fargas	Curry	32	32	18	3	32	32	26	32	-10.3	0.6	-9.6	-10.3	0.7
2005	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	290	383	-93	Turner	Burgess	Collins	Jordan	Moss	23	21	25	27	18	26	24	32	-5.8	3.0	-2.8	-1.2	-1.6
2004	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	4th of

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[Nolan]

Good Lord. We got a ton of "Sky is Falling" fans but I've been around long enough to see the same ones call for Payton's head in Week 5 of rough seasons then are ready to build him a golden statue by week 16.

Good post OP. We'll be fine.

My posting history here would show that I've always given players and coaches the benefit of the doubt, and I've always been an eternal optimist.

But I find it painfully obvious that Dennis Allen will never be a good head football coach let alone the type of coach that can take us to the promised land.

 

[44slayer]

In 12 years

On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

I guess we see how long this goes on. How long he gets to ride whatever excuse people come up with next.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Already l am seeing a bunch of fire him threads, which l think is very unfair of some of us
Yesterday we without our starting quarterback, 3 starting wide receivers, pro bowl corner, first round pick tackle and lost our starting tight end ( who was actually playing pretty well ) early
We were still very competitive, the only team l see as beat up as us is the 49ers who lost to a pretty bad Atlanta team ( wonder if their fans are calling for their coaches heads ? )
We lost at least two games this season mainly due to awful referees
He did not put us in this cap mess, we went all in in previous years and it would be hard for any head coach to sign good free agents with the mess we are in
Give the guy a chance, a whole lot of things that are wrong right now are simply not his fault

Nah, Allen helped contribute to the cap mess by going after Watson. We restructured every single contract we could just so that we could fit him.