In defense of Allen (gulp) (2 Viewers)

[DJ1BigTymer]

I mean it took the old coach to call out the RBs. DA just doesn’t have a commanding personality, so the mistakes the Saints make keep happening because the Players don’t fear anything coming from DA. They knew SP would make them pay for fumbling and bad tackling. This coach walked off the field like he was confused.

...He cannot motivate the players to do the basic concepts of the game, he isn’t adjusting the defense which he is the play caller, and he isn’t utilizing what players we do have available-taysom and the end of the game. He plays the game not to lose when he should be playing to win.

Y'all have some inside information on the ongoings inside of Airline Drive?

He and loomis gave up our next years 1st when we don’t have an answer at QB for the foreseeable future. The team was fleeced by Philly.

The draft pick trade was warranted and used in the right direction, unfortunately Penning hasn't panned out yet but the O-line is in desperate need of fixing!

His defenses for the last 5 years have always found away to crush the fans in his defensive play calling at the end of games and giving up the big play that everyone else in the world knew what was about to happen.

No pass here, just and escort out the door.

Now this is something to question! Whether it be bad play calls or poor execution, the D has repeatedly folded in closing out games!

 

[boutte]

On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

I guess we see how long this goes on. How long he gets to ride whatever excuse people come up with next.

So you want to do the Raider thing? Just keep firing coaches (after 6 games?) as the only solution.
I'm guessing you want fire Loomis too? Just tear everything down and get rid of anybody who contributed to turning this into one of the most successful franchises in the League over the last 16 years and start over from scratch.
A bunch of Chicken Littles overreacting to a rough start that has seen almost every offensive starter either missing games or playing with injuries, every starting DB missing at least one game. And let's not mention losing our two Pro-Bowl safeties, CJGJ and PJ being on IR.

Allen's defense looked terrible at first but eventually turned into one of the best. Good thing you weren't running things back then.

 

[boutte]

I don’t think many just followed the team for Jameis I believe most Jameis defenders on here has seen it like he’s being giving an unfair shake I mean the team has only won two games with both QBs and the one Winston one he showed and the one dalton one taysom showed
And I believe we all were rooting for the team last year throughout all the QB changes and we all love Taysom but some realize he throws poorly on deep balls for the most part while at the same time he has that fire we like

It's not a large group but they're around and they are obnoxious.

 

[No2DC]

Looks like a dumpster fire to me. In 12 years they were 3rd in the division 6 times. The other 6 they were 4th. Not one coach lasted 3 years.
Facts. But I suspect that you only care about the facts that fit your agenda.

2015	NFL	Oakland Raiders	7	9	0	3rd of 4	359	399	-40	Del Rio	Mack	Carr	Murray	Cooper	17	24	22	22	17	17	24	32	-2.5	2.3	-0.2	1.4	-1.6
2014	NFL	Oakland Raiders	3	13	0	4th of 4	253	452	-199	Sparano,Allen	Smith	Carr	McFadden	Holmes	31	32	32	21	32	32	30	32	-12.4	3.4	-9.0	-4.3	-4.7
2013	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	322	453	-131	Allen	Houston	Pryor	Jennings	Streater	24	23	29	22	27	29	24	32	-8.2	0.2	-8.0	-3.8	-4.2
2012	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	3rd of 4	290	443	-153	Allen	Palmer	Palmer	McFadden	Myers	26	18	28	18	23	29	17	32	-9.6	-1.3	-10.8	-4.6	-6.2
2011	NFL	Oakland Raiders	8	8	0	3rd of 4	359	433	-74	Jackson	Seymour	Palmer	Bush	Heyward-Bey	16	9	29	29	22	23	18	32	-4.6	-0.3	-4.9	0.2	-5.1
2010	NFL	Oakland Raiders	8	8	0	3rd of 4	410	371	39	Cable	McFadden	Campbell	McFadden	Miller	6	10	20	11	17	14	9	32	2.4	-2.3	0.2	2.3	-2.2
2009	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	3rd of 4	197	379	-182	Cable	Asomugha	Russell	Bush	Miller	31	31	23	26	30	30	31	32	-11.4	1.1	-10.3	-8.7	-1.6
2008	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	3rd of 4	263	388	-125	Cable,Kiffin	Asomugha	Russell	Fargas	Miller	29	29	24	27	15	28	29	32	-7.8	0.3	-7.5	-6.5	-1.0
2007	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	283	398	-115	Kiffin	Fargas	Culpepper	Fargas	Curry	23	25	26	22	28	28	26	32	-7.2	1.2	-6.0	-3.5	-2.5
2006	NFL	Oakland Raiders	2	14	0	4th of 4	168	332	-164	Shell	Asomugha	Walter	Fargas	Curry	32	32	18	3	32	32	26	32	-10.3	0.6	-9.6	-10.3	0.7
2005	NFL	Oakland Raiders	4	12	0	4th of 4	290	383	-93	Turner	Burgess	Collins	Jordan	Moss	23	21	25	27	18	26	24	32	-5.8	3.0	-2.8	-1.2	-1.6
2004	NFL	Oakland Raiders	5	11	0	4th of

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He failed in his first job, Sean succeeded. He’s not a good HC

 

[44slayer]

So you want to do the Raider thing? Just keep firing coaches (after 6 games?) as the only solution.
I'm guessing you want fire Loomis too? Just tear everything down and get rid of anybody who contributed to turning this into one of the most successful franchises in the League over the last 16 years and start over from scratch.
A bunch of Chicken Littles overreacting to a rough start that has seen almost every offensive starter either missing games or playing with injuries, every starting DB missing at least one game. And let's not mention losing our two Pro-Bowl safeties, CJGJ and PJ being on IR.

Allen's defense looked terrible at first but eventually turned into one of the best. Good thing you weren't running things back then.

This isnt a first time HC. You can say whatever you want about the Raiders, but DA wasnt a solution there, he was part of the problem. He was 8-28. No matter what the circumstances were, he was 8-28. You are what your record says you are.

Then he comes to a franchise that has the 3rd most wins the last 5 years. What if he goes 4-13/5-12? Does he get another year? Give him the dumpster fire excuse, but then he has another double digit loss season here. It just seems like his leash is shorter.

If he were a first time coach, youd give him 2-3 years. Like the Raiders did with him. Like Carolina did with Rhule. Joe Judge and Pat Shurmur got 2 years with the Giants. Vance Joseph 2 years with the Broncos. Id say the standard practice for first time coaches is 2 years and see where its heading in year 3. But he has had that 2+ with another franchise. And I dont see him doing anything that leads me to believe he is going to flip it around. The team is undisciplined in penalties, ball security and basic fundamentals like tackling. He takes virtually zero chances to try to throw a spark. Time management has been suspect. Late game playcalling on both offense and defense has been suspect. What exactly is he doing that makes you think he can flip his 10-32 career record on its head?

 

[boutte]

This isnt a first time HC. You can say whatever you want about the Raiders, but DA wasnt a solution there, he was part of the problem. He was 8-28. No matter what the circumstances were, he was 8-28. You are what your record says you are.

Then he comes to a franchise that has the 3rd most wins the last 5 years. What if he goes 4-13/5-12? Does he get another year? Give him the dumpster fire excuse, but then he has another double digit loss season here. It just seems like his leash is shorter.

If he were a first time coach, youd give him 2-3 years. Like the Raiders did with him. Like Carolina did with Rhule. Joe Judge and Pat Shurmur got 2 years with the Giants. Vance Joseph 2 years with the Broncos. Id say the standard practice for first time coaches is 2 years and see where its heading in year 3. But he has had that 2+ with another franchise. And I dont see him doing anything that leads me to believe he is going to flip it around. The team is undisciplined in penalties, ball security and basic fundamentals like tackling. He takes virtually zero chances to try to throw a spark. Time management has been suspect. Late game playcalling on both offense and defense has been suspect. What exactly is he doing that makes you think he can flip his 10-32 career record on its head?

I'm sure there's a miracle maker coach out there just waiting for a call who can come in and turn around Thursdays. Can tell us his name please. If he doesn't turn us into juggernaut by November we 'll just fire him and try somebody else. How long does it really take to rebuild a team?
We can do Raider stuff even better than the Raiders.

 

[Saintslfc13]

I'm not even really defending DA's demeanor but since the bounty gate suspension, and especially after the no call off-season, a lot of Saints fans have been moaning about Payton always being antagonistic towards the refs and the NFL upper hierarchy in general and that it's why we get so many bad calls and/or don't get calls our way. Now a lot of people are complaining that DA isn't getting in the refs face every time a call doesn't go our way. I mean it just seems like DA is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with a lot of the forum. When things work a lot of people insist it's inspite of him, when they don't it's because he's not teaching professional ******** football players how to break down and tackle opponents who already have one knee on the ground or had to tip toe the sideline just make the catch. Carmichael is getting a similar treatment but it's not as bad because it was reported he didn't really want the job and our offensive injuries are somewhat getting him a pass. It's a bit much in my opinion.

 

[44slayer]

I'm sure there's a miracle maker coach out there just waiting for a call who can come in and turn around Thursdays. Can tell us his name please. If he doesn't turn us into juggernaut by November we 'll just fire him and try somebody else. How long does it really take to rebuild a team?
We can do Raider stuff even better than the Raiders.

Tagged for for future reference.

 

[ASaintFerLife]

Already l am seeing a bunch of fire him threads, which l think is very unfair of some of us
Yesterday we without our starting quarterback, 3 starting wide receivers, pro bowl corner, first round pick tackle and lost our starting tight end ( who was actually playing pretty well ) early
We were still very competitive, the only team l see as beat up as us is the 49ers who lost to a pretty bad Atlanta team ( wonder if their fans are calling for their coaches heads ? )
We lost at least two games this season mainly due to awful referees
He did not put us in this cap mess, we went all in in previous years and it would be hard for any head coach to sign good free agents with the mess we are in
Give the guy a chance, a whole lot of things that are wrong right now are simply not his fault

I would mostly agree with that, this is one of those years were you do just ok enough and with a few lucky bounces of the ball you make the playoff's. If we dont get healthy and get a couple of those bounces we wont make it.

 

[DaveXA]

Sorry. But that’s just an excuse about the injuries. We’ve battled injuries the last decade, so this is nothing new. He cannot motivate the players to do the basic concepts of the game, he isn’t adjusting the defense which he is the play caller, and he isn’t utilizing what players we do have available-taysom and the end of the game. He plays the game not to lose when he should be playing to win.

He and loomis gave up our next years 1st when we don’t have an answer at QB for the foreseeable future. The team was fleeced by Philly. His defenses for the last 5 years have always found away to crush the fans in his defensive play calling at the end of games and giving up the big play that everyone else in the world knew what was about to happen.

No pass here, just and escort out the door.

Except it's really not just an excuse. Tell me one football team who is still a legitimate playoff contender without their starting QB? There really isn't one. The teams who make it though the season and playoffs are usually the healtiest ones. There's a good reason for that. Not a single team in the league would have a winning record missing their starting qb, 2 or 3 starting WRs, 2 starting CBs and more. It just doesn't happen very often.

Injuries are absolutely hurting this team. Are there other issues? Sure, but think about the Rams. If Stafford, Kupp, Donald and Ramsey were all missing, you think they win many games? If Cincy is missing Burrow, Chase, Dixon, T-Rex...they still win yesterday? Nope. Not even close.

Considering injuries, I pretty much penciled this game as a loss. In fact, I was thinking that even before the season started, before the injuries.

I haven't written off this season yet. A win vs the Cards would be a big help. I hope the defense is better and the tackling is improved. But the more important thing is the team needs to get some of their star players back. Injuries matter. To dismiss that out of hand is shortsighted imo.

 

[DaveXA]

It's a conservative approach that mostly doesn't work anymore, and definitely won't with the makeup of this team. It was fine a generation ago when field position, FGs, and defense could carry a physical team, but the rules of today heavily favor the QB and the passing game.

My mindset at the end of the game yesterday:

The unsettling feeling that Burrow would have no trouble getting his team down the field for the go-ahead TD.

The unsettling feeling that Dalton would not be able to get the Saints down the field for a game-winning TD.

Conservative, game-managed offenses are mostly a relic.

This I do agree with. I really don't think the offensive coaching is aggressive enough. But I do think it partly a personnel issue. The injuries and constant shifting of personnel would make it difficult to be confident in making more aggressive, and by definition more risky calls. Allen will need to trust his players more, but his players also have to deliver. It's a tough situation. I hope he can find the right balance and get the team in the win column, but it's all moot if the team continues to look like a MASH unit.

 

[SweetT]

I don’t think that firing Allen will matter honestly. We have a mediocre team. We have a bunch of guys who are on the decline right now…especially on our front seven of our defense. And we don’t have a QB. We have a bunch of replacement level guys. Guys like Winston…who nobody was interested in signing as a starter except us…and Dalton…who is a backup QB. It is exceptionally difficult to have sustained success in the NFL with our current level of talent at QB. Literally everything else has to fall into place. This team isn’t good enough to overcome a mediocre QB situation.

I’m honestly tired of hearing about “self-inflicted wounds” and “refs” as reasons for loses. Those are excuses that losers make. We are lucky to have 2 wins right now…it could easily be worse.

I don’t believe that we have a mediocre team. We have been very competitive with a team full of band aids at key positions. It seems like we put together a great strategy to win these games that we have no business winning, but we end up doing stupid stuff to ourselves. Our team is somehow losing focus and our playcalling is suspect at times. Not too mention the self inflicted turnovers. We are just undisciplined from top to bottom. The talent is still there. We just need that leadership to keep our guys focused throughout the game and the leadership to make sure our game plan should be executed when applicable.

 

[No2DC]

Except it's really not just an excuse. Tell me one football team who is still a legitimate playoff contender without their starting QB? There really isn't one. The teams who make it though the season and playoffs are usually the healtiest ones. There's a good reason for that. Not a single team in the league would have a winning record missing their starting qb, 2 or 3 starting WRs, 2 starting CBs and more. It just doesn't happen very often.

Injuries are absolutely hurting this team. Are there other issues? Sure, but think about the Rams. If Stafford, Kupp, Donald and Ramsey were all missing, you think they win many games? If Cincy is missing Burrow, Chase, Dixon, T-Rex...they still win yesterday? Nope. Not even close.

Considering injuries, I pretty much penciled this game as a loss. In fact, I was thinking that even before the season started, before the injuries.

I haven't written off this season yet. A win vs the Cards would be a big help. I hope the defense is better and the tackling is improved. But the more important thing is the team needs to get some of their star players back. Injuries matter. To dismiss that out of hand is shortsighted imo.

That's fair but we were a losing team before yesterday and the team exhibited the same type of shoot-yourself-in-the-foot things that lead to losses. AK key fumble, Ingram a key fumble, Jameis int at the worse time, defense gives up a big play just when the offense got the game close again.
The problem with this position is that we were displaying the characteristics of a poorly coached team prior to yesterday, that's what a losing team does. Pete took 6 games to figure out it might be a good idea to use his fastest player for a change-up on offense.
This is not about yesterday, it's about a pattern from a coach who failed before.

 

[DaveXA]

That's fair but we were a losing team before yesterday and the team exhibited the same type of shoot-yourself-in-the-foot things that lead to losses. AK key fumble, Ingram a key fumble, Jameis int at the worse time, defense gives up a big play just when the offense got the game close again.
The problem with this position is that we were displaying the characteristics of a poorly coached team prior to yesterday, that's what a losing team does. Pete took 6 games to figure out it might be a good idea to use his fastest player for a change-up on offense.
This is not about yesterday, it's about a pattern from a coach who failed before.

Well, he gets a season to show whether they improve or make adjustments and get away from the unforced errors to some degree. Every team will have them to some degree. Time will tell. If those trends continue throughout the entire season, then reevaluate at that time.

 

[No2DC]

Well, he gets a season to show whether they improve or make adjustments and get away from the unforced errors to some degree. Every team will have them to some degree. Time will tell. If those trends continue throughout the entire season, then reevaluate at that time.

I agree he will get a year but I'm not optimistic based on his record with Oakland.