Inflation here? gas/grocery prices just continue to climb (3 Viewers)

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bclemms said:
He's not wrong.
Knocking out 6% of the global food supply due to war does the same thing.
Increasing global freight costs due to terrorist attacks does the same thing.

Corporations maximizing profits is without a doubt a force multiplier.

There are numerous issues at play here and anyone trying to simplify it by pointing at a single reason is politicizing it or simply doesn't understand basic economics.
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that is majority of the issue. They saw an opening and took it and passed it off as the other issues you listed, well, because the majoity of the public would rather a scapegoat than the truth.
 
A corporation's #1 goal is to make money and make as much money as possible. They will always charge right at the ceiling and try to cut costs as much as possible. Not sure what people to expect them to do? Say they have enough money and start gifting things to people? Never going to happen and shouldn't.
 
0rion said:
A corporation's #1 goal is to make money and make as much money as possible. They will always charge right at the ceiling and try to cut costs as much as possible. Not sure what people to expect them to do? Say they have enough money and start gifting things to people? Never going to happen and shouldn't.
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I generally agree with the premise, but in practice, they do more than that. This below is a good example.

 
0rion said:
A corporation's #1 goal is to make money and make as much money as possible. They will always charge right at the ceiling and try to cut costs as much as possible. Not sure what people to expect them to do? Say they have enough money and start gifting things to people? Never going to happen and shouldn't.
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Thats not the problem, everyone expects most to belike that. The problem is them saying they are raising prices due to demand and shortages, etc, when in fact its just 100% purely for profit, while they play victim.
 
0rion said:
A corporation's #1 goal is to make money and make as much money as possible. They will always charge right at the ceiling and try to cut costs as much as possible. Not sure what people to expect them to do? Say they have enough money and start gifting things to people? Never going to happen and shouldn't.
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If we cannot (and ought not) expect decency, then the state has to step in.
 
0rion said:
There are laws against price fixing. That case seems like it would be hard to win.
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Yes there are, and collusion and other things. And they won't admit it, but they'll do whatever they think they can get away with regardless of the law, even to the point of figuring if the extra profit is worth dealing with the litigation. It's crass profiteering. I think a lot of companies who genuinely try to do it the right way within the confines of the law, but many others don't.
 
bigdaddysaints said:
that is majority of the issue. They saw an opening and took it and passed it off as the other issues you listed, well, because the majoity of the public would rather a scapegoat than the truth.
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It's kind of the majority of the issues but you have to look beyond simply saying they are raising prices at the consumer level. It also has a ton to do with food markets being consumed by corporations creating vertical monopolies on top of horizontal monopolies.

So the first part of the problem is supply and demand. When Russia invaded Ukraine it almost instantly knocked out 6% of the grain in the world. That grain is used to feed livestock as well. So in rich countries this drives the prices up. In poor countries, food starts being diverted to richer countries where higher prices are obtained and food scarcity becomes an issue in poor nations. Then you have the trickle down effect, grain goes up, so does livestock because it costs more to raise the livestock. Then transportation costs go up due to attacks on shipping multiplying the impact. Then when a certain food becomes more expensive it puts pricing pressure on other foods because consumers will switch until pricing levels out higher among all food types.

At the same time all of this is ongoing, raw inflation jumped significantly. Everyone wishes for a money tree but if money grew on trees it would be worth the same thing as leaves. So the short term answer to the government's complete failing of the covid pandemic was to throw money at it. This money was created, it didn't exist. So once again, looking at supply and demand, when supply goes up and demand stays the same then the value of that item goes down. In this case it is money. Then when more people have money, more is spent. This creates a situation where supply stays same (or went down in Covid) and demand on consumer goods went up. When that happens prices go up. So when prices go up and money supply go up simultaneously inflation snowballs really fast.

Corporations have become extremely efficient. They would much rather have a shortage of goods than too much of anything. This allows them to drive prices up and with it, profits. They are taking this to the max. Corporations only have obligations to the stock holders. By this line of thinking, they all drive profits to the max and ignore the long term plans with consumers because they are all doing it. It's not like they will lose market share to competition because the competition is doing it as well. This is supposed to be regulated by price fixing laws but by changing the name to "dynamic pricing" and donating a ton of money to lobbyists and undermining trade laws, this has suddenly become acceptable. Even if they do get hit with a penalty, the penalty is far less than the profits earned so there is no risk to breaking trade laws.

Trying to pin inflation on Biden for Covid spending is pretty silly. Remember Trump wanted his name on the checks so he could get credit for it? Well, now they are wanting to blame Biden. The truth is, both parties have been spending to the max. Like corporations, politicians have accumulated so much data and they are using that data to maximize votes. They realize the holy grail to elections is the economy. Turns out, voters only really care about money right now. The best way to make the economy hum is by spending a sheet ton of government money consequences be damned.

So the solution is to put Russia in it's place. To stop running up the national debt, to rebuild the government agencies that are supposed to be protecting consumers with trade laws by preventing consolidation by industry to the point of monopolies.

Only then, will prices start to come down. Problem is, if we fix the problem and prices come down then corporations will instantly start mass layoffs triggering deflation and a recession.

The answer is we will never deal with short term pain in this country so until it is forced on us through major long term pain we just have to deal with it.
 
bclemms said:
It's kind of the majority of the issues but you have to look beyond simply saying they are raising prices at the consumer level. It also has a ton to do with food markets being consumed by corporations creating vertical monopolies on top of horizontal monopolies.

So the first part of the problem is supply and demand. When Russia invaded Ukraine it almost instantly knocked out 6% of the grain in the world. That grain is used to feed livestock as well. So in rich countries this drives the prices up. In poor countries, food starts being diverted to richer countries where higher prices are obtained and food scarcity becomes an issue in poor nations. Then you have the trickle down effect, grain goes up, so does livestock because it costs more to raise the livestock. Then transportation costs go up due to attacks on shipping multiplying the impact. Then when a certain food becomes more expensive it puts pricing pressure on other foods because consumers will switch until pricing levels out higher among all food types.

At the same time all of this is ongoing, raw inflation jumped significantly. Everyone wishes for a money tree but if money grew on trees it would be worth the same thing as leaves. So the short term answer to the government's complete failing of the covid pandemic was to throw money at it. This money was created, it didn't exist. So once again, looking at supply and demand, when supply goes up and demand stays the same then the value of that item goes down. In this case it is money. Then when more people have money, more is spent. This creates a situation where supply stays same (or went down in Covid) and demand on consumer goods went up. When that happens prices go up. So when prices go up and money supply go up simultaneously inflation snowballs really fast.

Corporations have become extremely efficient. They would much rather have a shortage of goods than too much of anything. This allows them to drive prices up and with it, profits. They are taking this to the max. Corporations only have obligations to the stock holders. By this line of thinking, they all drive profits to the max and ignore the long term plans with consumers because they are all doing it. It's not like they will lose market share to competition because the competition is doing it as well. This is supposed to be regulated by price fixing laws but by changing the name to "dynamic pricing" and donating a ton of money to lobbyists and undermining trade laws, this has suddenly become acceptable. Even if they do get hit with a penalty, the penalty is far less than the profits earned so there is no risk to breaking trade laws.

Trying to pin inflation on Biden for Covid spending is pretty silly. Remember Trump wanted his name on the checks so he could get credit for it? Well, now they are wanting to blame Biden. The truth is, both parties have been spending to the max. Like corporations, politicians have accumulated so much data and they are using that data to maximize votes. They realize the holy grail to elections is the economy. Turns out, voters only really care about money right now. The best way to make the economy hum is by spending a sheet ton of government money consequences be damned.

So the solution is to put Russia in it's place. To stop running up the national debt, to rebuild the government agencies that are supposed to be protecting consumers with trade laws by preventing consolidation by industry to the point of monopolies.

Only then, will prices start to come down. Problem is, if we fix the problem and prices come down then corporations will instantly start mass layoffs triggering deflation and a recession.

The answer is we will never deal with short term pain in this country so until it is forced on us through major long term pain we just have to deal with it.
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Well said. Solid points.
 
bclemms said:
It's kind of the majority of the issues but you have to look beyond simply saying they are raising prices at the consumer level. It also has a ton to do with food markets being consumed by corporations creating vertical monopolies on top of horizontal monopolies.

So the first part of the problem is supply and demand. When Russia invaded Ukraine it almost instantly knocked out 6% of the grain in the world. That grain is used to feed livestock as well. So in rich countries this drives the prices up. In poor countries, food starts being diverted to richer countries where higher prices are obtained and food scarcity becomes an issue in poor nations. Then you have the trickle down effect, grain goes up, so does livestock because it costs more to raise the livestock. Then transportation costs go up due to attacks on shipping multiplying the impact. Then when a certain food becomes more expensive it puts pricing pressure on other foods because consumers will switch until pricing levels out higher among all food types.

At the same time all of this is ongoing, raw inflation jumped significantly. Everyone wishes for a money tree but if money grew on trees it would be worth the same thing as leaves. So the short term answer to the government's complete failing of the covid pandemic was to throw money at it. This money was created, it didn't exist. So once again, looking at supply and demand, when supply goes up and demand stays the same then the value of that item goes down. In this case it is money. Then when more people have money, more is spent. This creates a situation where supply stays same (or went down in Covid) and demand on consumer goods went up. When that happens prices go up. So when prices go up and money supply go up simultaneously inflation snowballs really fast.

Corporations have become extremely efficient. They would much rather have a shortage of goods than too much of anything. This allows them to drive prices up and with it, profits. They are taking this to the max. Corporations only have obligations to the stock holders. By this line of thinking, they all drive profits to the max and ignore the long term plans with consumers because they are all doing it. It's not like they will lose market share to competition because the competition is doing it as well. This is supposed to be regulated by price fixing laws but by changing the name to "dynamic pricing" and donating a ton of money to lobbyists and undermining trade laws, this has suddenly become acceptable. Even if they do get hit with a penalty, the penalty is far less than the profits earned so there is no risk to breaking trade laws.

Trying to pin inflation on Biden for Covid spending is pretty silly. Remember Trump wanted his name on the checks so he could get credit for it? Well, now they are wanting to blame Biden. The truth is, both parties have been spending to the max. Like corporations, politicians have accumulated so much data and they are using that data to maximize votes. They realize the holy grail to elections is the economy. Turns out, voters only really care about money right now. The best way to make the economy hum is by spending a sheet ton of government money consequences be damned.

So the solution is to put Russia in it's place. To stop running up the national debt, to rebuild the government agencies that are supposed to be protecting consumers with trade laws by preventing consolidation by industry to the point of monopolies.

Only then, will prices start to come down. Problem is, if we fix the problem and prices come down then corporations will instantly start mass layoffs triggering deflation and a recession.

The answer is we will never deal with short term pain in this country so until it is forced on us through major long term pain we just have to deal with it.
Click to expand...








Pretty good insight for a bumpkin from Mississippi . :hihi:
 
DaveXA said:
Sure, but trying to narrow it down ot blame it on just the war is wrong headed as well. There are a large number of issues that contribute to inflation, but I'd pin a lot of it on corporate pocketing profits. Many corps are pulling in record profits, and more importantly, record profit margins. Their margins are going up, not down. Not in every industry, certainly, but as a general rule, it's happening.
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Once again, not in virulent disagreement with the underlying point, I just take issue with the “pocketing” part. Depending on the company, most of it is going to shareholders in some form or fashion - most likely dividends, stock buybacks, drawing down debt, or reinvestment back into the company. Any that’s staying as corporate cash reserves is likely because there’s not an efficient place for it, which is not a happy place for the company involved. There’s simply not as much mustache twirling as people seem to think.
 
HoustonSaint68 said:
Once again, not in virulent disagreement with the underlying point, I just take issue with the “pocketing” part. Depending on the company, most of it is going to shareholders in some form or fashion - most likely dividends, stock buybacks, drawing down debt, or reinvestment back into the company. Any that’s staying as corporate cash reserves is likely because there’s not an efficient place for it, which is not a happy place for the company involved. There’s simply not as much mustache twirling as people seem to think.
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Well, we'll have to disagree there. It's not a huge gap, but I do think there's more than you're acknowledging. I think bclemms captures my sentiments better than I can.
 
bclemms said:
It's kind of the majority of the issues but you have to look beyond simply saying they are raising prices at the consumer level. It also has a ton to do with food markets being consumed by corporations creating vertical monopolies on top of horizontal monopolies.

So the first part of the problem is supply and demand. When Russia invaded Ukraine it almost instantly knocked out 6% of the grain in the world. That grain is used to feed livestock as well. So in rich countries this drives the prices up. In poor countries, food starts being diverted to richer countries where higher prices are obtained and food scarcity becomes an issue in poor nations. Then you have the trickle down effect, grain goes up, so does livestock because it costs more to raise the livestock. Then transportation costs go up due to attacks on shipping multiplying the impact. Then when a certain food becomes more expensive it puts pricing pressure on other foods because consumers will switch until pricing levels out higher among all food types.

At the same time all of this is ongoing, raw inflation jumped significantly. Everyone wishes for a money tree but if money grew on trees it would be worth the same thing as leaves. So the short term answer to the government's complete failing of the covid pandemic was to throw money at it. This money was created, it didn't exist. So once again, looking at supply and demand, when supply goes up and demand stays the same then the value of that item goes down. In this case it is money. Then when more people have money, more is spent. This creates a situation where supply stays same (or went down in Covid) and demand on consumer goods went up. When that happens prices go up. So when prices go up and money supply go up simultaneously inflation snowballs really fast.

Corporations have become extremely efficient. They would much rather have a shortage of goods than too much of anything. This allows them to drive prices up and with it, profits. They are taking this to the max. Corporations only have obligations to the stock holders. By this line of thinking, they all drive profits to the max and ignore the long term plans with consumers because they are all doing it. It's not like they will lose market share to competition because the competition is doing it as well. This is supposed to be regulated by price fixing laws but by changing the name to "dynamic pricing" and donating a ton of money to lobbyists and undermining trade laws, this has suddenly become acceptable. Even if they do get hit with a penalty, the penalty is far less than the profits earned so there is no risk to breaking trade laws.

Trying to pin inflation on Biden for Covid spending is pretty silly. Remember Trump wanted his name on the checks so he could get credit for it? Well, now they are wanting to blame Biden. The truth is, both parties have been spending to the max. Like corporations, politicians have accumulated so much data and they are using that data to maximize votes. They realize the holy grail to elections is the economy. Turns out, voters only really care about money right now. The best way to make the economy hum is by spending a sheet ton of government money consequences be damned.

So the solution is to put Russia in it's place. To stop running up the national debt, to rebuild the government agencies that are supposed to be protecting consumers with trade laws by preventing consolidation by industry to the point of monopolies.

Only then, will prices start to come down. Problem is, if we fix the problem and prices come down then corporations will instantly start mass layoffs triggering deflation and a recession.

The answer is we will never deal with short term pain in this country so until it is forced on us through major long term pain we just have to deal with it.
Click to expand...
And with this, the thread is practically finished, although continued venting does leave a pleasant visceral afterglow.
 

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