Ingram benched [OLD THREAD BUMPED] (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I actually agree with Bonchie in a sense that I've seen him function fairly well split out as a WR. He creates separation out of breaks and has some good shimmie to him in his releases. Even in TC there were reports of LB's being unable to cover him and he'd win on a lot of those routes.

Perhaps splitting him out wide at times with Hightower/Lasco in is a wrinkle we should look into.

 

[stevo3]

Definitely time to start rotating Lasco in more and more situations. Ingram is in his 6th season. He has well reached his plateau and we need more spark in the run game.

Let's hope the coach is concerned more with results and W's than managing Ingram's confidence and starts the transition. It'll be interesting because they've always gone out of their way to keep Ingram as the #1 back and pay him not an insignificant salary through 2017.

I pray that coach sticks to his guns and keeps the rotation Hightower and Lasco heavy. We've seen what happens to players when they get in Payton's doghouse in the past. But he is Sean Payton, so you just never know.

But if he does keep Ingram on the bench or just using him in rotation to spell Hightower or Lasco, I see him being asked to restructure his contract or be traded/released.

 

[blackadder]

I pray that coach sticks to his guns and keeps the rotation Hightower and Lasco heavy. We've seen what happens to players when they get in Payton's doghouse in the past. But he is Sean Payton, so you just never know.

But if he does keep Ingram on the bench or just using him in rotation to spell Hightower or Lasco, I see him being asked to restructure his contract or be traded/released.

If the past is the guide, Ingram will be back in significant rotation. Question is how much and what situations.

Payton invested a lot of time in him for the last 6 years, re-signed him and paid him pretty well despite a pretty mediocre start to his career and mediocre overall impact. I'll be surprised if his role gets permanently dialed back this season (assuming no more ill timed fumbles) but kind of pleasantly surprised if more carries go to Hightower and/or Lasco. It's getting time to look to the future of the position, which can clearly be elevated in talent and impact.

 

[porculator]

Here is the link and a screenshot with it even highlighted. That's about 2/3 of Ingram's career carries, the ones that aren't meaningless and not exactly what I'd call a narrow range and I was comparing apples to apples, all under the same exact split. You pull 3 career games from Mark Ingram and the remaining body of work is terrible.

Mark Ingram Career Splits | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Thats a pretty dumb stat. If the splits were based on the CURRENT margin at the time of the carry it would matter more. Considering we've been on the right end of blowouts more often since 2011, all of our players stats should be better in them. I'm sure Brees' stats are off the charts.

But even when we're on the short end the stat is meaningless. Ingram had his longest run of his career last year in a game we lost by 33. But we were only down by 7 at the time and that run set up a game tying TD at the time.

Don't get me wrong I'm perfectly fine with the benching, but using these stats to justify anything is kind of ridiculous.

 

[kcirdor]

Thats a pretty dumb stat.

Exactly... when you look these exact splits for last year only. Ingram was better than Hightower.

 

[HayBear]

The guy lacks vision and has ABSOLUTELY NO BURST!!! He is just no threat when he hits the hole and gets to the second level, which would be ok if he had great vision and always got 5-7 yds when he touched the ball, but unfortunately he gets bottled up at the line more often than not.

This is spot on.

 

[DaveXA]

Exactly... when you look these exact splits for last year only. Ingram was better than Hightower.

This is true. If you look at season totals from last year, it's pretty clear who the more effective back was. Again, I'm not knocking Hightower at all, just doing this for the sake of comparison.

Ingram 2015 season 166 rushes...769 yards...4.6 ypc
Hightower 2015 season 96 carries...375 yards...3.9 ypc

That's a significant statistical difference. Ingram has a place in the offense and he can be very useful in short yardage situations, and he has been much of the season up until the last 2 games. I'm not convinced giving up on him is the right move at this point, but that can always be reevaluated at the end of the season.

 

[ETWhoDat]

This is true. If you look at season totals from last year, it's pretty clear who the more effective back was. Again, I'm not knocking Hightower at all, just doing this for the sake of comparison.

Ingram 2015 season 166 rushes...769 yards...4.6 ypc
Hightower 2015 season 96 carries...375 yards...3.9 ypc

That's a significant statistical difference. Ingram has a place in the offense and he can be very useful in short yardage situations, and he has been much of the season up until the last 2 games. I'm not convinced giving up on him is the right move at this point, but that can always be reevaluated at the end of the season.

Ingram is 2nd string anywhere else in this league.

 

[saints4life25]

Up until the 4th quarter, Hightower carried the ball 20 times for 50 yards. Then he broke the long 28 yard run, which is the only reason he had a respectable 3.9 YPC. Ingram hasn't had 20 carries in a single game since week 9 of 2015. He hasn't had the 26 carries Hightower had since week 10 of 2014. This year, Ingram hasn't had a chance for that 21st carry that went for a big gain to bring his average up. Hightower didn't look any different than Ingram out there. 25 carries for 74 yards. 1 carry for 28.

 

[DaveXA]

Ingram is 2nd string anywhere else in this league.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm comparing him with Hightower. And, I'd like to see another legitimate back come here and see how well he does in this offense. I'm not convinced the numbers would be all that much better unless Payton starts calling most games like he did vs Seattle.

 

[ETWhoDat]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm comparing him with Hightower. And, I'd like to see another legitimate back come here and see how well he does in this offense. I'm not convinced the numbers would be all that much better unless Payton starts calling most games like he did vs Seattle.

The problem with ingram is that he gets the 15 2-4 yard runs per game every other back gets but he doesn't get that 1 20+ yarder that other even average backs seem to bust pretty routinely. I know this ship has sailed, but just thinking back to when we had Ivory. You just had the feeling that any run could be a touchdown.

 

[kcirdor]

when we had Ivory. You just had the feeling that any run could be a touchdown.

Or a Fumble or Injury.

 

[Ronnie]

I don't need stats, my eye test tells me Hightower runs better, I like Ingram, but I like Hightower more.

 

[kcirdor]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm comparing him with Hightower. And, I'd like to see another legitimate back come here and see how well he does in this offense. I'm not convinced the numbers would be all that much better unless Payton starts calling most games like he did vs Seattle.

Consider this, after we let Carl Nicks go, our oline has been suspect at best. It's interesting that the Primary back to compare Ingram with in the past few seasons, the averages are almost identical.

People are saying Ingram hasn't been a receiver until now. We had Pierre Thomas, that was Pierre Thomas's PRIMARY role on this team. It is amazing as soon as Pierre leaves, that role is picked up by Mark. It wasn't as if he couldn't do it. He didn't have to do it. Ingram was a run first back, and in my opinion, and this is really the key to this whole argument, When Ingram was on the field people KNEW THE SAINTS WERE RUNNING THE BALL. It is no coincidence that when Ingram was finally allowed be a part of the passing game that his numbers sharply increased. This same sentiment shines brightly in Khiry's numbers during that same time frame. When Khiry was on the field THE SAINTS WERE RUNNING THE BALL.

The sentiment people also like to bring up is... Ingram runs into the backs of his blockers. If Ingram didn't run into the backs of his blockers he would be worse than Reggie Bush, you don't bounce the ball just because your hole isn't there. If you run up and push through your blockers when your hole isn't there, you gain yardage. That is one thing Ingram has always gotten right, don't lose yards bouncing when you can push through the pile and get 1 or 2 yards. That is what makes him a reliable runner, you may end up with 2nd and 8 or even 9, but you normally won't end up at 2nd and 12 or 14 when he runs.

 

[kcirdor]

I don't need stats, my eye test tells me Hightower runs better, I like Ingram, but I like Hightower more.

Your Eye test means nothing, thanks for playing though.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V9hY6TVWRms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>