Is Kellen Moore not impressed with Rattler? (6 Viewers)

[jahsoul357]

B.S. JD5 has shown progression each year. He also has certain intangibles that Rattler simply doesn’t possess. Not many people (even vets) are doing wha JD5 is doing on the field.

That happens when you have an offense built totally around you and your skillset. Quiet as kept, Mariota looked awesome in that offense as well, but I digress. Rattler is getting killed by the optics of last season but I guarantee you that JD5 would look nothing like he did as a Saint. I'm not saying Rattler is better than Daniels but we have to stop trying to compare them (or any other quarterback's) like their situations were apples to apples.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

That happens when you have an offense built totally around you and your skillset. Quiet as kept, Mariota looked awesome in that offense as well, but I digress. Rattler is getting killed by the optics of last season but I guarantee you that JD5 would look nothing like he did as a Saint. I'm not saying Rattler is better than Daniels but we have to stop trying to compare them (or any other quarterback's) like their situations were apples to apples.

No. But you can certainly judge it play by play. Read progression. Pocket presence and poise. Pre-snap read like skipping the intended first read due to a pre-snap read and making your 3rd or 2nd read now your first.

JD5 showed these things a fair amount and although not perfect, made for a great floor to build an offensive identity around. Rattler did not show these things well at all.

 

[solarbear88]

He got thrown to the wolves last year with no Oline or WR to help him, so can't really blame any losses or lack of success on him. However, Saints keep saying Rattler is a good prospect. I read into this that he is not really ready to play and may never be.

 

[jahsoul357]

No. But you can certainly judge it play by play. Read progression. Pocket presence and poise. Pre-snap read like skipping the intended first read due to a pre-snap read and making your 3rd or 2nd read now your first.

JD5 showed these things a fair amount and although not perfect, made for a great floor to build an offensive identity around. Rattler did not show these things well at all.

I'm going to be honest; we ain't judging things play by play and we never do/have. And I'm not speaking about you personally, but in general. We are results oriented, so at the end of the day, we are looking at stats, wins, and losses. And Washington already knew what their identity was going to be when they drafted JD5 and made him the starter. Balanced offense that leans heavy on "college" style passing concepts and RPO, because that's what Kliffsbury do..lol. But you are missing something; the offense in Washington was always built around JD5; put emphasis on the things that he do well and exclude the things that he isn't good at. Rattler didn't have the offense built and centered around him. This is not an apples to apples comparison and we have to stop treating it like it is.

 

[No2DC]

No. But you can certainly judge it play by play. Read progression. Pocket presence and poise. Pre-snap read like skipping the intended first read due to a pre-snap read and making your 3rd or 2nd read now your first.

JD5 showed these things a fair amount and although not perfect, made for a great floor to build an offensive identity around. Rattler did not show these things well at all.

I never viewed the comparison as anything but a hypothetical exaggeration. One guy was a former Heisman winner and the 2nd pick in the draft, while the other was a 5th-round pick whose hype is based on his ranking coming out of high school. He was benched for Caleb and didn't have a redemption story like Hurts after Tua. Obviously, Jaden would not have performed as well with the Saints as he did with the Commanders, but the two teams were on different performance levels coming out.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

He got thrown to the wolves last year with no Oline or WR to help him, so can't really blame any losses or lack of success on him. However, Saints keep saying Rattler is a good prospect. I read into this that he is not really ready to play and may never be.

One thing I can’t stress enough to people who aren’t saints fans is how bad the WR corps was at the end of the year. Just think about how many receivers we had out due to injuries. O line def had its issues, but the who was he throwing to?

 

[StudioSaint]

I'm going to be honest; we ain't judging things play by play and we never do/have. And I'm not speaking about you personally, but in general. We are results oriented, so at the end of the day, we are looking at stats, wins, and losses. And Washington already knew what their identity was going to be when they drafted JD5 and made him the starter. Balanced offense that leans heavy on "college" style passing concepts and RPO, because that's what Kliffsbury do..lol. But you are missing something; the offense in Washington was always built around JD5; put emphasis on the things that he do well and exclude the things that he isn't good at. Rattler didn't have the offense built and centered around him. This is not an apples to apples comparison and we have to stop treating it like it is.

Teams evaluate players on an every play by every play basis. The player is only evaluated based on how well or poorly they did what was expected. If a QB is intercepted on a play, but he did what he was expected to do and he did it well, then he'll get graded well. They don't grade the QB low just because the play ended in an interception.

That's the most accurate way to grade a player and it's impossible to accurately grade a player that way without knowing exactly what the coaches expect from the player. That's why a team's grade on a player can be very different than the grade that outsiders give a player.

 

[jahsoul357]

Teams evaluate players on an every play by every play basis. The player is only evaluated based on how well or poorly they did what was expected. If a QB is intercepted on a play, but he did what he was expected to do and he did it well, then he'll get graded well. They don't grade the QB low just because the play ended in an interception.

That's the most accurate way to grade a player and it's impossible to accurately grade a player that way without knowing exactly what the coaches expect from the player. That's why a team's grade on a player can be very different than the grade that outsiders give a player.

I was speaking specifically as fans, because we don't know any of these things that are actually asked of the quarterbacks (another reason why PFF grades are trash deluxe but that's another topic). Especially in the context of comparing 2 quarterbacks in 2 totally different offenses in 2 totally different situations.

I agree with you that coaches grade tell the real story. As a Saint, CKM has graded no one. I'm not saying that Rattler or Haener will turn out to be world beaters; all I'm saying is we should be more critical of the situation that they were actually placed in last season than the results.

 

[StudioSaint]

I was speaking specifically as fans, because we don't know any of these things that are actually asked of the quarterbacks (another reason why PFF grades are trash deluxe but that's another topic). Especially in the context of comparing 2 quarterbacks in 2 totally different offenses in 2 totally different situations.

I agree with you that coaches grade tell the real story. As a Saint, CKM has graded no one. I'm not saying that Rattler or Haener will turn out to be world beaters; all I'm saying is we should be more critical of the situation that they were actually placed in last season than the results.

I hope that Moore reviewed previous film and grades of his players before free agency started. Going into free agency without doing that would be foolish and I don't think Moore is foolish.

I wasn't disagreeing with you about Haener and Rattler. I was agreeing that fans aren't in a position to accurately evaluate a player's performance.

 

[jahsoul357]

I hope that Moore reviewed previous film and grades of his players before free agency started. Going into free agency without doing that would be foolish and I don't think Moore is foolish.

I wasn't disagreeing with you about Haener and Rattler. I was agreeing that fans aren't in a position to accurately evaluate a player's performance.

You and I both. With his history of offensive success, I trust the direction that he plans on going, whether drafting or building what we have. It just sucks that with us knowing how bad last season was, a lot of us are acting like that had zero role in quarterback performance, especially a rookie.

 

[StudioSaint]

You and I both. With his history of offensive success, I trust the direction that he plans on going, whether drafting or building what we have. It just sucks that with us knowing how bad last season was, a lot of us are acting like that had zero role in quarterback performance, especially a rookie.

I think all the QB's will play better under Moore, so I agree. I'm not writing any of them off or crowning any of them, but I do think they will all play better under Moore.

 

[Cajun Mike]

Would you be? He was over his head, maybe after a few years in the league he could become a viable player, but right now?

Of course didn’t have #1’s I can list a bunch. Idiotic post

 

[DavidM]

Moore talked about Rattler with the media this morning at the owners meeting.

"Really good player...tons of tools." Evaluated him last year with the Eagles. Took into consideration the challenging circumstances he played in last season which affected the results. Saw positives in his decision-making, going through progressions, and hanging in the pocket. First year players are "always swimming" - excited to continue developing him.

Edit: comments on Rattler start around 24:15 if the bookmark isn't working.

 

[tyler735]

Moore talked about Rattler with the media this morning at the owners meeting.

"Really good player...tons of tools." Evaluated him last year with the Eagles. Took into consideration the challenging circumstances he played in last season which affected the results. Saw positives in his decision-making, going through progressions, and hanging in the pocket. First year players are "always swimming" - excited to continue developing him.

This is definitely one of the things I'm most excited about with Moore coming in as our head coach. Just seeing whether or not he can get the most out of Rattler's tools to develop him into a quality NFL QB or if Rattler is "fools gold".