Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (12 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Bibi does not give a sheet about what the United States says or wants. He has proved it multiple times throughout his career, especially when it comes to Palestinians.

He might not, but Israel does. Bibi's power isn't unlimited and he's not exactly enjoying unanimous support. There are many who oppose him. If he throws away support of their allies, Israel will be in a world of hurt.

 

[not2rich]

That makes it ok? We've learned nothing from that?

Does not make it okay. I'm just stating facts.

But can the risks of killing innocent civilians, including children, be minimized? Certainly. And I'm not defending Israel's actions on that point.

 

[Infoman]

Some people can’t differentiate intent. There’s a huge difference between premeditated murder with intent, and killing in defense or in heat of a situation. I realize both things end up with the tragic consequences of death. But if you can’t wrap your head around the difference then there’s not much to discuss.

In a perfect world killing another human being would not be justified in any way…. We don’t live in that world.

 

[bclemms]

Certainly.

Certainly. Israel is less than a month into this war.

Yeah, I'm not saying that makes it ok. Lets keep in mind the hospital incident turned out to most likely be an accident that resulted in fewer deaths than reported. We aren't privy to exactly how many casualties there were and whether the reports are accurate in this current case.

You'd be surprised. There have been several protests and continue to be in Israel. There are a lot of Israelis who oppose how Bibi is prosecuting this war.

I wasnt surprised with hospital. Saw where the bottle rockets hit and knew they were full of sheet. Saw the pics from today.

 

[not2rich]

Israel has gone too far, in my opinion. I can no longer support American backing of their actions. Bibi is using religion to justify killing men, women, and children of Gaza. I'm done with them and don't want our taxes supporting their murderous retribution. I'm not backing Hamas in any way. They are garbage too. They can all kill each other without American support. Screw the whole area.

I agree Israel's response so far seems disproportionate, but I know how our country would respond if similarly attacked, and I recall the situation in that region seemed relatively stable until Oct. 7.

I hate to say it, but everything from Oct. 7 on seems to be playing right into Hamas' hands from a PR standpoint.

 

[Maxp]

If you drop a 2000lb bomb in a refugee camp with the intent of killing your enemy leadership, full well knowing thousands live in the exact same space, is your intent only to kill a couple specific people?

 

[0rion]

Some people can’t differentiate intent. There’s a huge difference between premeditated murder with intent, and killing in defense or in heat of a situation. I realize both things end up with the tragic consequences of death. But if you can’t wrap your head around the difference then there’s not much to discuss.

Agreed.....dead is dead. Whether it's ruthlessly attacking someone and needlessly killing innocent people or bombing them day in and day out for weeks after in retaliation. You can't pick a side in this without forgiving sins. They're both wrong.

 

[bclemms]

Some people can’t differentiate intent. There’s a huge difference between premeditated murder with intent, and killing in defense or in heat of a situation. I realize both things end up with the tragic consequences of death. But if you can’t wrap your head around the difference then there’s not much to discuss.

In a perfect world killing another human being would not be justified in any way…. We don’t live in that world.

What is the difference between intent and indifference? How much is too much?

How many Palestinians is one person from Israel worth?

I’m not even calling for ceasefire but they need to stop the bombing of civilians. I get Hamas is using human shields but damn.

 

[Infoman]

I agree Israel's response so far seems disproportionate, but I know how our country would respond if similarly attacked, and I recall the situation in that region seemed relatively stable until Oct. 7.

I hate to say it, but everything from Oct. 7 on seems to be playing right into Hamas' hands from a PR standpoint.

It’s because they did this on purpose. The plan was always to kill as many as possible as horrific as possible and as quickly as possible…. Then run and hide behind the Palestinian people…. To draw Israel into a war in which they end up looking like they want to kill Palestinians only. They want to kill Israel in the eyes of public perception because they have no way of beating them on a battlefield. The only people who don’t see this, are people who don’t want to.

 

[bclemms]

It’s because they did this on purpose. The plan was always to kill as many as possible as horrific as possible and as quickly as possible…. Then run and hide behind the Palestinian people…. To draw Israel into a war in which they end up looking like they want to kill Palestinians only. They want to kill Israel in the eyes of public perception because they have no way of beating them on a battlefield. The only people who don’t see this, are people who don’t want to.

So they have Israel right where they want them?

 

[not2rich]

What is the difference between intent and indifference? How much is too much?

How many Palestinians is one person from Israel worth?

I’m not even calling for ceasefire but they need to stop the bombing of civilians. I get Hamas is using human shields but damn.

I agree with this. I get wanting to use air power against enemy forces before sending in your own troops, but this isn't the Persian Gulf War. If your enemy is in cities or heavily populated areas, however, you need to suck it up and just send in the ground forces - even if it means higher casualties for your own troops.

 

[not2rich]

So they have Israel right where they want them?

Pretty much, it seems like.

 

[Infoman]

What is the difference between intent and indifference? How much is too much?

How many Palestinians is one person from Israel worth?

I’m not even calling for ceasefire but they need to stop the bombing of civilians. I get Hamas is using human shields but damn.

Indifference becomes intent when you stop targeting the enemy, and start to pull kids from their moms to behead them, live stream rapes to family members on Social media, and shoot surrendering grandmothers. That’s usually my line.

I’m not saying one life is more important than another. But we have different levels of murder…. And different levels of punishment accordingly. This is not a new concept.

 

[Infoman]

So they have Israel right where they want them?

Pretty much. But there’s more to come when the other powers that hate them join the fray. But yeah. They accomplished exactly what the set out to do.

 

[not2rich]

It’s because they did this on purpose. The plan was always to kill as many as possible as horrific as possible and as quickly as possible…. Then run and hide behind the Palestinian people…. To draw Israel into a war in which they end up looking like they want to kill Palestinians only. They want to kill Israel in the eyes of public perception because they have no way of beating them on a battlefield. The only people who don’t see this, are people who don’t want to.

Which is exactly why Israel - while needing to respond in a forceful way - needs to go out of its way to demonstrate it follows strictly the rules of war. To show clearly they are different from Hamas. And right now, they are not creating that perception.