Jeff Duncan on Sean Payton 2023

[EGLSShin]

A couple of things that stand about the current reporting:

Assuming this is based on credible information, It sounds like New Orleans is currently only a fallback plan if one of the LA teams doesn't pan out. As much I'd like to have him back, not sure how to feel about that, given the rumors he had tried to part ways with the Saints on a couple of other occasions.

If he did return, have to consider the possibility he finishes out the remaining two years on his current deal, without agreeing to an extension, then is free to go wherever he wants at that point without compensation to the team. Something I hadn't considered before but what happens to his rights if Payton expresses an interest in returning and the Saints pass on re-employing him? Is there a scenario here where he can force the team into either hiring him back or cutting him loose?

I don't think you bring him back without an extension and maybe offering something more to ensure he coaches for awhile longer.

 

[Saint Spud]

A couple of things that stand about the current reporting:

Assuming this is based on credible information, It sounds like New Orleans is currently only a fallback plan if one of the LA teams doesn't pan out. As much I'd like to have him back, not sure how to feel about that, given the rumors he had tried to part ways with the Saints on a couple of other occasions.

If he did return, have to consider the possibility he finishes out the remaining two years on his current deal, without agreeing to an extension, then is free to go wherever he wants at that point without compensation to the team. Something I hadn't considered before but what happens to his rights if Payton expresses an interest in returning and the Saints pass on re-employing him? Is there a scenario here where he can force the team into either hiring him back or cutting him loose?

All of that is very fair.

My read is that he will evaluate every opening based on its own merits. His relationship with Loomis and Mrs B and knowledge of the organization would be a huge plus.

But…

Having a QB like Herbert would obviously be a huge(er?) plus, too. Maybe bigger than anything a return to NO could offer.

The Rams would be somewhere in between. If he really wants LA, he would inherit a roster which has fallen off a cliff just as much (more?) than ours and has fewer assets to work with. So he would mostly just want to live in LA. Not to mention, the compensation we would get would be bleh.

I don’t mind being a fallback in any of those scenarios. If we’re being honest, we wouldn’t be as attractive as the Chargers job.

And if you remember…we were a fallback to Green Bay for SP the first time around. That worked out okay.

 

[Saint Spud]

I'm not questioning his ability as a coach, I'm questioning his commitment to the future. Those are two different things.

Worry about the future later. If he leaves again, at least we will have had a year or two to restore what DA broke in a short period of time.

 

[Saint Jack]

All of that is very fair.

My read is that he will evaluate every opening based on its own merits. His relationship with Loomis and Mrs B and knowledge of the organization would be a huge plus.

But…

Having a QB like Herbert would obviously be a huge(er?) plus, too. Maybe bigger than anything a return to NO could offer.

The Rams would be somewhere in between. If he really wants LA, he would inherit a roster which has fallen off a cliff just as much (more?) than ours and has fewer assets to work with. So he would mostly just want to live in LA. Not to mention, the compensation we would get would be bleh.

I don’t mind being a fallback in any of those scenarios. If we’re being honest, we wouldn’t be as attractive as the Chargers job.

And if you remember…we were a fallback to Green Bay for SP the first time around. That worked out okay.

The only reason to go to the Rams would be to cash a paycheck. They are in worse shape in a waaay tougher division.

 

[DavidM]

I don't think you bring him back without an extension and maybe offering something more to ensure he coaches for awhile longer.

Right, which is what has me wondering about how this could play out. Payton's obligation to the Saints right now is the remaining two years of his contract. He isn't obligated to sign an extension. If the team had a chance to re-employ him but chose not to without an extension, does that potentially void the remainder of his contract? (I'm asking because I don't know.)

 

[DavidM]

And if you remember…we were a fallback to Green Bay for SP the first time around. That worked out okay.

Yeah, but there are some different considerations in play this time.

 

[No2DC]

Worry about the future later. If he leaves again, at least we will have had a year or two to restore what DA broke in a short period of time.

That sounds nice in theory however, we need a long-term commitment, not a one-night stand. One of the reasons we are in the situation we are in now is the "tomorrow doesn't matter" cap management style via Loomis from Payton. If he leaves, we do not want a repeat.

 

[Saint Spud]

Yeah, but there are some different considerations in play this time.

Of course. My point is that being a “fallback” doesn’t lead to a lack of commitment.

Two years is a long time in coaching.

 

[Saint Spud]

That sounds nice in theory however, we need a long-term commitment, not a one-night stand. One of the reasons we are in the situation we are in now is the "tomorrow doesn't matter" cap management style via Loomis from Payton. If he leaves, we do not want a repeat.

Two years in coaching isn’t a one-night stand. It’s more of a commitment than most marriages, lol.

 

[DavidM]

Of course. My point is that being a “fallback” doesn’t lead to a lack of commitment.

Two years is a long time in coaching.

This isn't a possibility I even considered a couple of days ago and so I'll admit I can't weigh it without some serious skepticism. Skeptical that there's any real merit to it, but if there is, skeptical that it's a net-win for the Saints *unless* it comes with a renewed commitment from Payton that New Orleans is where he wants to be longterm, backed up by an extension. There's always the possibility that being away from the Saints has made him long for what he had, but then it would sure be nice if the reporting put the Saints in front for his return. That's apparently not the case.

So that leaves me wondering if there's an angle here that isn't obvious beyond the initial excitement of: oh, hey, Payton might want to come back! Two years isn't that long in coaching if it's a pre-determined split again in two years.

I know there has been some debate about how exactly the Saints rights to Payton work; whether it's the remaining two years through 2024 or if it's the remaining two years through perpetuity. If it's the latter, then something has to give for Payton to make a return to coaching, which could be the undercurrent to these emerging rumors.

 

[BelowZero]

Something I hadn't considered before but what happens to his rights if Payton expresses an interest in returning and the Saints pass on re-employing him?

Fire the entire front office and teepee their mansions, and I'd bring the pitchforks. That would be incredibly stupid. It's one thing if Payton doesn't want to be here and we trade him, but if he himself wants to come back, you don't hesitate. Two seasons or not.

 

[Saintcd]

Problem I have is if DA get the boot (which I hope) and then the Payton/saints dance thing drags out and he ultimately goes somewhere else and we’re 2 weeks behind every other team in finding a head coach. Just like last season. Hope the chargers force the issue by firing there head coach prior to the season end.

 

[DavidM]

Fire the entire front office and teepee their mansions, and I'd bring the pitchforks. That would be incredibly stupid. It's one thing if Payton doesn't want to be here and we trade him, but if he himself wants to come back, you don't hesitate. Two seasons or not.

I get the sentiment, but the trade-off to bringing him back for two seasons, without an extension (if that was the case), would be the possibility of his walking away and the team getting nothing in compensation once his contract is honored.

I guess the hypothetical becomes:

Would it be better to have Payton back for two years, and only two years, or trade his rights in the offseason for whatever the team can get?

 

[saintsmarchin]

Sp just a sucker for the flare..

If saints organization was really moving on... you think they'd promote co captains as Defensive Coordinators

Dude just wanted a year off to hang out with his 24 year old wife.