Mark Ingram 18 for 97 (5.4 ypc) 1 TD (1 Viewer)

[Slidell Mike]

I'm hoping the Saints use PT more as a decoy in the screen pass this game. The Seahawks killed us on the screen passes in the regular season game and are known to be able to take that away from most teams. They also know we love to run those screens with PT. Hopefully, Payton will use that tendency against the Seahawks in this game.

 

[St.Freethinker]

I am thrilled Ingram had a good game. I hope every game from now on he has a great game, but if ever with goal to go from the 1 and he gets stuffed by a cornerback, I will be on his case again.

Ingram has great quickness through the holes. I have yet to see him run with power though. He still doesn't even come close to what PT can do for yards after contact, although I have seen improvement with that in the last couple games.

 

[Invictus]

Too many posts to quote&reply, so I'll just write some scattered observations. First of all I've noticed (especially in other threads) that a few "Ingram' haters" refuse to face the facts and might as well go down swinging! Moreover they eagerly hope for #22 to have a "quiet" game, so they'll be ready once again to crucify him...well, they're shameless individuals and shouldn't be considered true Saints' fans.

Meanwhile I still don't understand what all the fuss was about to begin with...Mark Ingram was selected by the Saints in the first round of 2011, but as a rookie he was used in a very limited role (almost exclusively 3rd&short situations), where he clearly succeeded. In 2012 our HC was suspended for the entire season, so a huge asterisk quickly materialized all over the season...yet Mark Ingram led all Saints' RBs in rushing yardage.

OK, so here we are in year three and we can agree that, at the start of the season, there were few carries coupled with subpar production. Unfortunately almost everyone seems to forget that the same paltry results characterized the other RBs when Mark injured his toe. In fact the main problem was the awful run blocking by the OL, as our RBs were dodging defenders before reaching the LOS. Luckily this problem was solved around midseason and the game against the Cowboys represented the big switch in terms of production for everyone (except for PT, who has probably suffered some wear and tear).

IMHO the only real mistake that can be ascribed to #22 was his desire to make the most out of the few carries that he was given early in the year, as he was clearly pressing too much more times than not. Furthermore the defense was focusing on him when the Saints deployed certain formations, and that didn't help as well. Another fact that seems to confirm this aspect is that Ingram's YPC has constantly improved after he was included in pass formations/plays (sometimes taking the role mastered by PT in all those years). Coincidence? I think not.

Last but not least, I somewhat agree with the assumptions that were made in another thread (where even TCUDan describes a more plausible point of view regarding the ex-Alabama prodigy). Indeed Mark is a very dangerous RB when he reaches the second level, as he can also drag multiple defenders when he accelerates with a full head of steam. On the other hand he sometimes is too soft around the LOS.

Having said that, I'm still convinced that Sean Payton was right, back in 2011, when he declared: "The only thing keeping Mark from being Rookie of the Year is me". A similar phrase was recently uttered while speaking about Khiry Robinson, so maybe Sean knows he has a really good stable of RBs at his disposal. He only has to decide when to use them and when it's better to ride the golden arm of Drew Brees.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Your entitiled to your opinion but there was nothing out of touch about that comment...did I say he was holding back Ray Zellars? I know nobody can talk about the great Pierre Thomas on here just the younger more talented players behind him because to you PT Apologist it justifies his place on the team even though he is more productive on designed screen runs than actually rushing.....but only Ingram and Robinson can be called into question.

Again. It's like you've waited for this moment to attack "PT Apologists." You keep making these assertions that PT is deified on the boards. Khiry and Ingram had a great game and our rushing attack has finally awakened because of them and better line play. You can leave it at that.

 

[BoNcHiE]

I am thrilled Ingram had a good game. I hope every game from now on he has a great game, but if ever with goal to go from the 1 and he gets stuffed by a cornerback, I will be on his case again.

Ingram has great quickness through the holes. I have yet to see him run with power though. He still doesn't even come close to what PT can do for yards after contact, although I have seen improvement with that in the last couple games.

It's like you didn't even watch last game.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Payton made a reference in his post-game news conference to all of the backs "running with a good pad level." I don't know exactly what that meant, but it did seem that Ingram ran lower and more of a lean than upright. Only on a couple of runs in the last drive did he seem to revert a little. He ran with good vision and fought the tendency to try to bounce outside. And even when he did bounce outside he was able to square up and squeeze out 2 to 3 yards when the end was sealed. In the Dallas game, he seemed to commit to patiently following Jed through the whole and it worked. He looks like a different runner and it looks good.

 

[meily]

Again. It's like you've waited for this moment to attack "PT Apologists." You keep making these assertions that PT is deified on the boards. Khiry and Ingram had a great game and our rushing attack has finally awakened because of them and better line play. You can leave it at that.

I'm sorry...is my opinion making you uncomfortable? My whole stance is PT has been just as unproductive as any other tailback on this roster but he's the one that seems to always get a pass...nobody is knocking him (get out of your feelings) but its safe to say that both aingramnand Robinson provide more big play ability running the ball than PT...that doesn't mean PT is a bad player he doesn't have that skill set...but he is a good player...he's on kickoff returns...provides stability at his position...but he's not the most talented player at his position...we saw those three guys Saturday night...suck it up...your man crush is a chess piece...granted he's a chess piece who has the respect of every Saints fan but a chess piece non the less.

 

[boutte]

Your entitiled to your opinion but there was nothing out of touch about that comment...did I say he was holding back Ray Zellars? I know nobody can talk about the great Pierre Thomas on here just the younger more talented players behind him because to you PT Apologist it justifies his place on the team even though he is more productive on designed screen runs than actually rushing.....but only Ingram and Robinson can be called into question.

And only Ingram gets to use the excuse that he doesn't get enough carries? You Ingram Apologists seem to use any excuse to forgive Ingrams very real poor performances but not give any one else any credit when they perform well. Why do you discount PTs accomplishments especially in the passing game. The Great PT has contributed to a hell of a lot more victories than Ingram has. Why weren't you calling for more carries for Thomas? Because you're man crush for MI has given you tunnel vision.

Why can't you just be a fan of one of the most valuable members on this team for the last 8 and be a fan of Ingram too? Because you have an agenda that doesn't allow for it. We PT Apologists, as you so insultingly put it, are fans because he's earned our appreciation.

I'm thrilled to see Ingram step up. It's been a long wait but it's looking like it was worth it. To suggest that because he's finally put some good games together we should now discard a still very productive veteran like an old shoe is ridiculous.

 

[Sarsippius]

And only Ingram gets to use the excuse that he doesn't get enough carries? You Ingram Apologists seem to use any excuse to forgive Ingrams very real poor performances but not give any one else any credit when they perform well. Why do you discount PTs accomplishments especially in the passing game. The Great PT has contributed to a hell of a lot more victories than Ingram has. Why weren't you calling for more carries for Thomas? Because you're man crush for MI has given you tunnel vision.

Why can't you just be a fan of one of the most valuable members on this team for the last 8 and be a fan of Ingram too? Because you have an agenda that doesn't allow for it. We PT Apologists, as you so insultingly put it, are fans because he's earned our appreciation.

I'm thrilled to see Ingram step up. It's been a long wait but it's looking like it was worth it. To suggest that because he's finally put some good games together we should now discard a still very productive veteran like an old shoe is ridiculous.

Amen! Too bad we aren't real fans though as I was made aware of in this thread. Funniest part is, I don't hate Ingram...but i do despise his fanwagon and their agenda, and secretly fantasize you will go away when he does. I have personally believed Ingram is heartless since seeing him on Alabama sidelines his rookie year with us completely pumped and fired up but, until lately, has never shown that while wearing Black and Gold. And no, I am not an LSU fan before you even try. Call it Sullivan Syndrome, but I am still not sold. I am happy when he plays well, and would be thrilled if he finally turned the corner and became a stud, but I demand consistency before i give my support after 2.5 years of subpar performances.

 

[MBDomefield]

Ok this thread has gone far enough. Bring in the psychotherapist.

 

[meily]

And only Ingram gets to use the excuse that he doesn't get enough carries? You Ingram Apologists seem to use any excuse to forgive Ingrams very real poor performances but not give any one else any credit when they perform well. Why do you discount PTs accomplishments especially in the passing game. The Great PT has contributed to a hell of a lot more victories than Ingram has. Why weren't you calling for more carries for Thomas? Because you're man crush for MI has given you tunnel vision.

Why can't you just be a fan of one of the most valuable members on this team for the last 8 and be a fan of Ingram too? Because you have an agenda that doesn't allow for it. We PT Apologists, as you so insultingly put it, are fans because he's earned our appreciation.

I'm thrilled to see Ingram step up. It's been a long wait but it's looking like it was worth it. To suggest that because he's finally put some good games together we should now discard a still very productive veteran like an old shoe is ridiculous.

Nobody is an apologist for anybody...I'm one of the few people who get tired of hearing how one player is held to a standard the player being praised is succeptable to as well....pierre has a 3.9 yoc average this year...ingram haters would of made so many threads about that...all the backs are talented but some people just have to pretend that a bad cut is proof X player is not as good as Y player...or the fact X player got the goaline carry means Y player does not have the coaches trust...like anybody knows why for sure...just so much reaches to justify a player who is just as capable as another at his same position....you put yourself in category as a apologist...I'm a fan of the team and recognize how players are used and why they are used but all you see is criticism because you blindly argue anything that sounds like a knock against" your guy.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I'm sorry...is my opinion making you uncomfortable? My whole stance is PT has been just as unproductive as any other tailback on this roster but he's the one that seems to always get a pass...nobody is knocking him (get out of your feelings) but its safe to say that both aingramnand Robinson provide more big play ability running the ball than PT...that doesn't mean PT is a bad player he doesn't have that skill set...but he is a good player...he's on kickoff returns...provides stability at his position...but he's not the most talented player at his position...we saw those three guys Saturday night...suck it up...your man crush is a chess piece...granted he's a chess piece who has the respect of every Saints fan but a chess piece non the less.

I'm quite comfy, just surprised that you feel the need to beleaguer the same point, it is out of character for you. And here you go again with the "man crush" comment assuming no one can be objective about PT. This is where you're wrong. Nothing to suck up, here. I'll spell out my opinion on the subject so that you'll have a clearer understanding.

Early in the season, none of the backs were effective, including PT. Ingram took a ton of abuse, some justified, some over-the-top. He was definitely the whipping boy for our pathetic rushing game, when it probably had more to do with the Oline. Ingram's short NFL history had a lot to do with that. The last few games, he's starting to change those opinions. Khiry simply didn't have a body of work and was way off the criticism radar. PT has a history of being reliable, getting an extra 2-3 yards after contact and good in pass protection, so I guess he got a hall pass from the masses. So I see your point, I just don't think it was the PT love fest that you think it was. I guess we just differ on the severity. That why I am surprised that you've felt the need to slip those shots in on every running back related post.

My current state of the running back situation is this.
- I'm still trying to figure out how much the Oline has improved and how it relates to the recent rushing success. The Seattle game should reveal a lot.
- Ingram - I've had issues with his running style, propensity to bounce outside too quickly and being impatient. He's never lacked desire and has always worked hard to succeed. I liked what I saw on Saturday and he looked like a different back. I think he's turned the corner and earned respect. I hope it's not an aberration.
- PT - I think he's still our most reliable back, but will acknowledge that Ingram and Khiry have closed the gap and maybe even surpassed PT in some aspects. The torch may be passing, but I don't think PT is done, by a long shot.
- Khiry - might be my favorite of the three. I'm most comfortable with giving him the ball to run between the tackles. I hope with experience he rounds out and shows the ability to pass protect and factor in the passing game. Too small of a sample size and maybe too early to judge fairly.

I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I hope this helps correct some of your assumptions about me, anyway.

 

[cutter11]

I must admit that I was not happy with Ingram. Looking back, I think I just hated to see Chris Ivory go. Anyway... I'm no football expert, but I was wrong about Ingram. He is a beast. I will now cook a pot of crow gumbo.

Ate my crow right after the Dallas game and it was delish.

 

[Saint Dupree]

Ingram haters aren't allowed to root for him now with the amount and intensity of crap thrown his way. Y'all know who you are

um.... who are you? Ingram's heart and production deserved to be questioned when he wasnt producing.... now that he is playing well he deserves to be praised. Period. It is as simple as that.....who are you to tell folks who they can or cant root for. Most REAL Saints fans are fans of the team and root for ALL of their players to do well and just want to see the team succeed. THen their are "fans" like you who only root for your guy. Gtf outta here with that crap we dont need fans like you.

 

[Bartyboy]

I am just very happy about the 185 total rushing yards against Philly. If the numbers are similar this Saturday I don't care how it is spread out. Each RB has his skill set and hope that those skills are used to their fullest on Saturday.
The O-line has improved 1000% and it has made all of the RBs more productive.