Medical reasons why Saints may have passed on RB Tyjae Spears (2 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I get it. Everyone can't learn calculus. Some of us are just concrete thinkers. BPA is simply BPA. Tagging on "position of need" only serves to to help you feel better about it. And it's funny, it's always in hindsight when unpopular picks switch from being "that was stupid" to "no, no, no that was a need, here's why!" Kamara of course is an example, but Alontae Taylor is another good example. It was left field when it happened, but now in hindsight, "you know what...that was a need", LOL. You view every pick's value in hindsight so you can claim victory for BPA. You're a broken record...but the thread literally exist where we can go back and see the proof.

And when the Saints have drafted to fill a need...the Davenports, Turners, Pennings, etc. When the Saints went into the draft specifically to fill a certain position, the results are poorer than when they've selected BPA. And I'm not saying which was need or BPA, we CAN GO BACK TO THE THREADS, Drafting need just arbitrarily decreases the player pool whereas drafting BPA (BPA at a position of need, lol) increases the likelihood you hit on a good player. This is that calculus I was talking about. Arbitrarily limiting who you can draft to one position, has been and always will be a bad idea. You don't have to understand it. You don't have to get it. The Eagles do and that's why their roster is where it is right now. They take advantage of teams that are drafting based on need.

Listen man, would it help you if I just post the quote of Loomis saying that they draft BPA at a position of need? It's like you think I came up with this explanation myself.

Insinuating I'm too stupid to understand common sense would be enough to irritate me on a regular day but because I know that most comments like that typically fit the person better if they stand in the mirror and say it to themselves I'm not offended. It's you struggling here but i mean, hey I'll post the quote...just give me the greenlight.


Alright, so I found a quote, not the one I was looking for which was far more recent but it's from 2011.


To your point - Loomis admits that they are always trying to fill needs in FA so that they can ultimately draft the BPA. That's what they "want" to do, and that's known. But as I've been saying all along, you don't always FILL the need prior and so it is still potentially a need when it's your time to pick. IF the player is graded high and it's also a position of need, relative to other positions that may be "wants" the team will most times draft for the need.

Obviously to your point that doesn't always workout and unfortunately that's the case more often than not. Typically a team is unable to fill every single must and need prior to the draft and they are forced to select a need. All teams reach, it happens at QB position probably the most.


So I think at this point this is less argument, and more misunderstanding. I'm definitely not saying teams go into a draft zeroing in a position and will select that position no matter what regardless of value. That would be stupid, however every team aspires to draft BPA and some teams depending on how the roster is built, and how successful their offseason was, they are afforded that luxury. But more often than not...they end up having to take BPA at a position of need. It is what it is .

Without naming names, in the last nine years, how many times have you taken a first round pick with the highest grade?

"It's a good question. I don't know. I'd have to go back and look at each year. I will say this that we have never taken a player that is significantly lower than the guys above him. There may be cases where the grades weren't close. We haven't taken someone who's graded significantly lower."

We're always trying to get to this point without a glaring need so that we can draft the best player available to us. Even though the different aspects of the draft and free agency are reversed this year, we're still going to approach it like we're going to take the best player for a team that's available to us."

If I can find the more direct quote of Loomis saying their goal is to draft BPA but most times position of need forces the issue I will, but I'm leaving work.


Take care man,

 

[livefromDC]

Listen man, would it help you if I just post the quote of Loomis saying that they draft BPA at a position of need? It's like you think I came up with this explanation myself.

Insinuating I'm too stupid to understand common sense would be enough to irritate me on a regular day but because I know that most comments like that typically fit the person better if they stand in the mirror and say it to themselves I'm not offended. It's you struggling here but i mean, hey I'll post the quote...just give me the greenlight.


Alright, so I found a quote, not the one I was looking for which was far more recent but it's from 2011.


To your point - Loomis admits that they are always trying to fill needs in FA so that they can ultimately draft the BPA. That's what they "want" to do, and that's known. But as I've been saying all along, you don't always FILL the need prior and so it is still potentially a need when it's your time to pick. IF the player is graded high and it's also a position of need, relative to other positions that may be "wants" the team will most times draft for the need.

Obviously to your point that doesn't always workout and unfortunately that's the case more often than not. Typically a team is unable to fill every single must and need prior to the draft and they are forced to select a need. All teams reach, it happens at QB position probably the most.


So I think at this point this is less argument, and more misunderstanding. I'm definitely not saying teams go into a draft zeroing in a position and will select that position no matter what regardless of value. That would be stupid, however every team aspires to draft BPA and some teams depending on how the roster is built, and how successful their offseason was, they are afforded that luxury. But more often than not...they end up having to take BPA at a position of need. It is what it is .







If I can find the more direct quote of Loomis saying their goal is to draft BPA but most times position of need forces the issue I will, but I'm leaving work.


Take care man,

Nah man, you said the Saints always draft need. You went on to say that EVERY team drafts based on need. That's not the case. You found a quote that states that's not the case. We have examples from during the draft NOT your hindsight opinion after a few seasons. We don't have to argue this. This isn't an argument. The Saints draft philosophy had been BPA. As of late, it's been the same except for in the first round when it's obviously been the check box approach. The results have been subpar with maybe Olave and Bresee being the only successes since 2018. I just find it weird having this "argument" because we can go back to the threads. We can see the thoughts on each pick. We can see the thoughts leading up to the draft. It's totally obvious when the Saints have gone BPA, and that's usually the case with the exception of those 1st round picks when they were clearly targetting a player or position. And again, we see how those turned out.

So cool, now you get it. If all that other rationalizing helps you feel better about it, so be it. "It's BPA at a position of need" is nothing more than BPA. After free agency, unless you have an all-pro (like with Brees at QB) at a position, ALL positions are needs and can upgraded. Drafting a QB during Brees' prime was the only position off the table. That's because Loomis knew and knows that every position is an injury, trade, or DUI away from being a need. If the draft happened in January or August (just illustrating a point, I know that's not feasible), a team's biggest "needs" would be different because needs are relative to time. You don't build your team around unpredictable everchanging circumstances. You build it by amassing the best players. If you end up with 2 amazing players at 1 position, that's never going to be a problem. And every team in the league will take that problem over having a player that filled a need (Penning, Turner, Davenport for example), but isn't working out.

Loomis knows that BPA translate to wins on the field or trade/draft capital off of it.

 

[El Caliente]

Didn’t we draft Kamara to fill the hole that was left open when Sproles left?

 

[livefromDC]

Didn’t we draft Kamara to fill the hole that was left open when Sproles left?

He was drafted as the BPA. This is where Ellias goes astray. He judges the results of the draft based on what we know now. There's a difference.

2017 NFL Draft: Saints add yet another running back in Alvin Kamara after trade

Kamara took a winding path to Tennessee but had a big senior year for the Vols

www.cbssports.com

""This is awful. You have Mark Ingram. You sign, for some reason, Adrian Peterson. And now you draft Alvin Kamara. Why? Kamara may work on passing downs after he had 74 catches the past two seasons for Tennessee, but Ingram had 96 catches the past two years and has proven he can pass protect."

THIS was the prevailing thought. The Saints saw what Kamara could be and drafted him despite not having the need to do it. He was BPA by a lot based on their board and they decided to go get him.

 

[B-Train]

if Spears didn't go to Tulane then y'all really wouldn't be having an issue with this

And yet we have a thread with nothing but praise for why we should draft the LSU QB.

For what it’s worth, I said we should have gone with Spears OR Achane over Miller. Both were better and yes one happened to be from Louisiana. Doesn’t always work out that way but in this case it did. Saints picked the wrong guy, it is what it is.

 

[scott88]

And yet we have a thread with nothing but praise for why we should draft the LSU QB.

For what it’s worth, I said we should have gone with Spears OR Achane over Miller. Both were better and yes one happened to be from Louisiana. Doesn’t always work out that way but in this case it did. Saints picked the wrong guy, it is what it is.

so your not giving Miller a chance? for all we know Spears could tear is one ACL this week

 

[Doug B]

Saints picked the wrong guy, it is what it is.

Way too early to even have a hint of that.

 

[faceman]

Nah man, you said the Saints always draft need. You went on to say that EVERY team drafts based on need. That's not the case. You found a quote that states that's not the case. We have examples from during the draft NOT your hindsight opinion after a few seasons. We don't have to argue this. This isn't an argument. The Saints draft philosophy had been BPA. As of late, it's been the same except for in the first round when it's obviously been the check box approach. The results have been subpar with maybe Olave and Bresee being the only successes since 2018. I just find it weird having this "argument" because we can go back to the threads. We can see the thoughts on each pick. We can see the thoughts leading up to the draft. It's totally obvious when the Saints have gone BPA, and that's usually the case with the exception of those 1st round picks when they were clearly targetting a player or position. And again, we see how those turned out.

So cool, now you get it. If all that other rationalizing helps you feel better about it, so be it. "It's BPA at a position of need" is nothing more than BPA. After free agency, unless you have an all-pro (like with Brees at QB) at a position, ALL positions are needs and can upgraded. Drafting a QB during Brees' prime was the only position off the table. That's because Loomis knew and knows that every position is an injury, trade, or DUI away from being a need. If the draft happened in January or August (just illustrating a point, I know that's not feasible), a team's biggest "needs" would be different because needs are relative to time. You don't build your team around unpredictable everchanging circumstances. You build it by amassing the best players. If you end up with 2 amazing players at 1 position, that's never going to be a problem. And every team in the league will take that problem over having a player that filled a need (Penning, Turner, Davenport for example), but isn't working out.

Loomis knows that BPA translate to wins on the field or trade/draft capital off of it.

Nothing to add to your great post except the NFL is also an acronym for not for long.
A position of strength can become a position of need very quickly for the reasons you stated.

 

[sfidc3]

Nothing to add to your great post except the NFL is also an acronym for not for long.
A position of strength can become a position of need very quickly for the reasons you stated.

This.....all day long.....

But the teams that draft strictly for "perceived need" are typically the ones that are perennial losers....like teams that continue to miss and draft QB's with early picks a few years apart....or teams that reach for a player just because they play a specific position.....I like the Saints draft philosophy with accentuated the RAS numbers, still, it doesn't always work out.....I think, as with many things in the NFL, luck is a much bigger factor than anything else.....injuries have shorted what should have been a lot of good careers....

 

[faceman]

This.....all day long.....

But the teams that draft strictly for "perceived need" are typically the ones that are perennial losers....like teams that continue to miss and draft QB's with early picks a few years apart....or teams that reach for a player just because they play a specific position.....I like the Saints draft philosophy with accentuated the RAS numbers, still, it doesn't always work out.....I think, as with many things in the NFL, luck is a much bigger factor than anything else.....injuries have shorted what should have been a lot of good careers....

I will say this. The only time I'd probably never take the BPA would be if he were a Qb and was loaded
at the position. That is very rare though. The only ones I can think of at the moment were the Niners
with Montana starting and Steve Young as the backup. The same with the Packers with Favre and Rodgers.

I also said probably . It worked with the Oilers when they had Warren Moon and drafted Jim Everett
with their #1 in 86. Injuries at Qb hit the Rams hard and the Oilers were able to get two first round picks
for Everett in a trade.

 

[sfidc3]

I will say this. The only time I'd probably never take the BPA would be if he were a Qb and was loaded
at the position. That is very rare though. The only ones I can think of at the moment were the Niners
with Montana starting and Steve Young as the backup. The same with the Packers with Favre and Rodgers.

I also said probably . It worked with the Oilers when they had Warren Moon and drafted Jim Everett
with their #1 in 86. Injuries at Qb hit the Rams hard and the Oilers were able to get two first round picks
for Everett in a trade.

I think there are fairly rare cases like this when one position group is so deep that you don't go pure BPA.....

 

[Albi]

Spears (5.5 YPC) is having a better year that Kendre Miller (3.1 YPC). Yes, the sample size is small for both… but that’s a massive difference.

The only bright spot for Miller is his ability out of the backfield.

But we really won’t know who will be better… for a few years.

 

[Nolan]

Sample size is too small to judge Miller. I think he looks really good, honestly, based on eye test.

Don't wanna hear chirping about his YPA. Jamaal is @ 3.1 YPA, Kamara is @ 3.7 YPA, both below their career averages. Run blocking has not been good, and our run plays have been predictable to tee off on.

 

[bobad]

Nah, you just don’t want to admit that ALL teams draft for need lol, but I digress

It amazes me that fans think teams draft pure BPA.

Coaches suffer through the entire season with players they would love to upgrade, and when the draft finally gets there and they're not going to try to upgrade them? Won't happen!

Part of the BPA legend comes from coaches not wanting to damage a player's confidence. Coaches don't say "We drafted John Doe because we needed to upgrade our Left Guard", because that could be devasting to the LGs confidence and his trade value. Instead, the coach says "We couldn't believe John Doe was still available, he was the BPA so that's why we drafted him".

Do coaches draft BPA, even though the position is not weak? Certainly sometimes, but I bet upgrading weak positions is the first priority and BPA is second.

 

[bobad]

Spears (5.5 YPC) is having a better year that Kendre Miller (3.1 YPC). Yes, the sample size is small for both… but that’s a massive difference.

The only bright spot for Miller is his ability out of the backfield.

But we really won’t know who will be better… for a few years.

I like the way Miller is shaping up, but still a little early to tell.

Miller and Kamara have the same role, Spears and Henry have completely different roles so Spears is not overshadowed by Henry like Miller is by Kamara.