N/S Payton critiques old Broncos staff, says Jets are setting themselves up for a hard fall, etc. (2 Viewers)

[draftfreak]

I don't mind the things he's saying - they seem true and we need more honesty, but he did ditch us and I honestly don't care what he does.

 

[Clintonrebel]

I predict Payton will weigh 220 pounds by November

 

[dvdman]

Sean now crawfishing big time.
It was a dumb move on his part for whatever his intentions were to even comment on Hackett or the Jets. It was none of his business to begin with.

 

[BreesusSaves]

To me this a measured, fair take. I don't think SP ever planned to stick around for a rebuild after Drew retired. All indications were that he was going to ride the Drew bus for as long as he could and then bail out. Looking back it was pretty obvious. There was never a plan for life after Brees. He knew he wasn't going to be around to clean up the mess so he traded draft picks for new toys and helped nuke the salary cap. He ran up the credit card and then left town.

It's not so much that he left, it's how he left. I totally understand an older coach not wanting to waste years of his his career trying to rebuild without quality draft assets and a less than ideal cap situation. Rebuilds are hard enough already but then you throw in the fact that he didn't have much to rebuild with, I don't blame him for leaving. But there's a right way to go about it. He tried to snake his way to Miami and got busted. So then it turns into burnout. He didn't even try to hide the fact that he would be back to coach another team as soon as possible.

Then he comes back and basks in the spotlight with the world waiting for him to pick which team he would coach next. To his surprise the Chargers weren't interested and the teams that were interested were awful. After milking all of the attention he could he finally settled on the Broncos and he's been running his mouth ever since. For the life of me I can't understand why Saints fans are rooting for him and the Broncos. Obviously I appreciate what he did for the Saints and I'm sure in time my feelings toward SP will change. But right now I'm not rooting for him and I'm certainly not yelling, "Let's Ride!".

I disagree with the idea that Payton wasn't planning on staying after Brees retired, the Loomis interview after Brees retired is very telling when you look at it now with Payton's "sabbatical" added in.

This is a summary of what Loomis said:

- At the end of the 2016 season, Brees told Loomis and Payton he was planning on retiring soon and they needed to find his replacement.

- Loomis, Payton, and Ireland scout, do homework, and consider Mahomes to be their guy, which was absolutely the correct assessment.

- Loomis said that he and Payton also talked with Brees about drafting Mahomes and that Brees was 100% on board with it, with the succession plan being to retire after 2017 or 2018 at the latest.

What Loomis didn't go into detail of was just how badly the Saints plan went down in flames when Kansas City jumped in front to draft Mahomes. I think if the Saints had drafted Mahomes, Payton is still here and he's not looking for an out.

 

[Saintsphere]

I think if the Saints had drafted Mahomes, Payton is still here and he's not looking for an out.

Of course. No coach is willingly walking away from Mahomes. Heck Reid will probably go 5-10 years more longer than he had planned now because of Pat lol

 

[Saint Jack]

Payton would say the same thing about the Falcons when he was here.
The only difference is that Payton decided to speak ill of the NY team.

 

[King_Kamala61]

To me this a measured, fair take. I don't think SP ever planned to stick around for a rebuild after Drew retired. All indications were that he was going to ride the Drew bus for as long as he could and then bail out. Looking back it was pretty obvious. There was never a plan for life after Brees. He knew he wasn't going to be around to clean up the mess so he traded draft picks for new toys and helped nuke the salary cap. He ran up the credit card and then left town.

It's not so much that he left, it's how he left. I totally understand an older coach not wanting to waste years of his his career trying to rebuild without quality draft assets and a less than ideal cap situation. Rebuilds are hard enough already but then you throw in the fact that he didn't have much to rebuild with, I don't blame him for leaving. But there's a right way to go about it. He tried to snake his way to Miami and got busted. So then it turns into burnout. He didn't even try to hide the fact that he would be back to coach another team as soon as possible.

Then he comes back and basks in the spotlight with the world waiting for him to pick which team he would coach next. To his surprise the Chargers weren't interested and the teams that were interested were awful. After milking all of the attention he could he finally settled on the Broncos and he's been running his mouth ever since. For the life of me I can't understand why Saints fans are rooting for him and the Broncos. Obviously I appreciate what he did for the Saints and I'm sure in time my feelings toward SP will change. But right now I'm not rooting for him and I'm certainly not yelling, "Let's Ride!".

Yep. This board clearly is some turn coats. Percocet P betrayed us after he played us.

And I have no desire to bask in the good times anymore...funeral it...2nd line it and move that F on

 

[sfidc3]

If that's true and he would've been back here except that the Saints wouldn't move on from Allen.. it's just such a mistake to operate from a place where you're making the decision based upon what's fair to Dennis Allen.

I've seen this rumor before, if it's true Loomis should be fired, that is utter insanity.....

 

[sfidc3]

I just wished he'd been a little more honest and not insult some individual Saints fans intelligences with his half-arse, not-believable reasons for leaving, which clearly werent true and created some residual bitterness and resentment. It felt like a not-too well-executed con that no one bought as opposed to Jim Mora's reasons for leaving and quitting being understandable because unlike Payton after the 2021 season, he really was burnt out and needed a break.

Jim Mora is a quitter and he squandered some of the best NFL defenses in history, 0 playoff wins in his career, he couldn't hold CSP's jock.....

CSP spent 16 years here brought us unprecedented success, was he perfect? No, far from it.....but he owes us nothing, and he very possibly will be remembered as the best coach in Saints history....sorry, this whining and crying about him leaving after 16 years is kind of pathetic.....folks acting like this is way outside the norm is hilarious.....

 

[srcampbell]

If you want to be fair, DA didn't mean "keep screwing up" I'm pretty sure he meant "Don't panic, just be confident we can execute like in practice."

I'm also pretty sure that DA has replaced some people he had no confidence in their ability to execute the plays.

Exactly, and thanks for pointing that out. I hate how so many of us here intentionally take that quote out of context.

 

[sportsaint]

I know he's no longer a Saint but we’d be lying if we weren’t somewhat interested in casually following around how Payton is doing. And this article was very good and peak Sean Payton. He really pulled no punches. I’m glad he’s in the AFC so we don’t have to actively root against him (though I know some fans will still because they feel he ditched us)

Sean Payton pinpoints blame for Broncos' collapse, Russell Wilson's woes: '20 dirty hands'

Sean Payton has been tasked with repairing a Broncos team that cratered last season after the much-hyped addition of Russell Wilson.

www.usatoday.com

My 2 cents is that when he was our guy we overlooked the things he said and did because he was our guy, our coach, but maybe because he’s some other teams coach, now it’s easier to see that man he says and does cringe worthy things. Love him for what he did and brought to our team, but there were a lot of times I wish he would’ve just shut up and did his job but I know that’s not him and it’s a big reason the Saints got a trophy.

 

[Saintman2884]

Jim Mora is a quitter and he squandered some of the best NFL defenses in history, 0 playoff wins in his career, he couldn't hold CSP's jock.....

CSP spent 16 years here brought us unprecedented success, was he perfect? No, far from it.....but he owes us nothing, and he very possibly will be remembered as the best coach in Saints history....sorry, this whining and crying about him leaving after 16 years is kind of pathetic.....folks acting like this is way outside the norm is hilarious.....

The reason Jim Mora never won a playoff game was because he was way too conservative in big games, including post-season games. He felt a 3-point or 7-point lead early in the 4th quarter was a big enough cushion to sit on in games, and more often then not, if that's your HC philosophy and you're committed to a running game that isn't well-executed and doesn't work, you will lose more then you win. And he was far too loyal to too many incompetent, inept, middling assistants on his staff, his refusal to fire Vic Fangio as his Colts DC in Indy after the 2001 season is a great example.

He was the middle class version of Marty Schottenheimer with even less playoff success, but when Mora quit midway through the 1996 season, he wasnt exaggerating or trying to find a convenient sounding excuse that no one would believe to explain why he didn't want to be here anymore, and as much as I appreciate the success Payton gave us for 16 seasons, I think we'll see this season in Denver who was really more of the engines that drove those teams: Payton or Brees. If one just does a cursory analysis of Mora's last press conference after losing to Panthers in 1996, its obvious he's worn out, exhausted, burned out, and lacking in any real ideas on how to.fix the teams' problems. After Jim Finks death in 1994, Mora was asked by Benson to take on a larger role in running the Saints FO alongside Kuharich(who Mora always viewed as an underling and not someone he really respected, like Finks), and Jim Miller and being a FA negotiatior, making most of off-field decisions beginning in the 1994 season, that wasnt his strength and distracted him from focusing on the team itself. That's one of major reasons why Mora was so burnt out by the 1996 season.

Payton is in a much tougher division than the one he left after the 2021 season. Kansas City doesn't look to be falling apart or rebuilding anytime soon as long as they have Patrick Mahomes, Herbert signing that huge 262.5 million dollar contract with LAC means he'll likely be staying with Chargers most of his career and he helps make Chargers a strong, #2 contender to Chiefs dominance of the AFC West/AFC.

Plus, he has to match wits with another future, HOF HC in Andy Reid, who, in many respects, is very much Payton's equal in terms of being an offensive innovator, creative schemes.

 

[sfidc3]

The reason Jim Mora never won a playoff game was because he was way too conservative in big games, including post-season games. He felt a 3-point or 7-point lead early in the 4th quarter was a big enough cushion to sit on in games, and more often then not, if that's your HC philosophy and you're committed to a running game that isn't well-executed and doesn't work, you will lose more then you win. And he was far too loyal to too many incompetent, inept, middling assistants on his staff, his refusal to fire Vic Fangio as his Colts DC in Indy after the 2001 season is a great example.

He was the middle class version of Marty Schottenheimer with even less playoff success, but when Mora quit midway through the 1996 season, he wasnt exaggerating or trying to find a convenient sounding excuse that no one would believe to explain why he didn't want to be here anymore, and as much as I appreciate the success Payton gave us for 16 seasons, I think we'll see this season in Denver who was really more of the engines that drove those teams: Payton or Brees. If one just does a cursory analysis of Mora's last press conference after losing to Panthers in 1996, its obvious he's worn out, exhausted, burned out, and lacking in any real ideas on how to.fix the teams' problems. After Jim Finks death in 1994, Mora was asked by Benson to take on a larger role in running the Saints FO alongside Kuharich(who Mora always viewed as an underling and not someone he really respected, like Finks), and Jim Miller and being a FA negotiatior, making most of off-field decisions beginning in the 1994 season, that wasnt his strength and distracted him from focusing on the team itself. That's one of major reasons why Mora was so burnt out by the 1996 season.

Payton is in a much tougher division than the one he left after the 2021 season. Kansas City doesn't look to be falling apart or rebuilding anytime soon as long as they have Patrick Mahomes, Herbert signing that huge 262.5 million dollar contract with LAC means he'll likely be staying with Chargers most of his career and he helps make Chargers a strong, #2 contender to Chiefs dominance of the AFC West/AFC.

Plus, he has to match wits with another future, HOF HC in Andy Reid, who, in many respects, is very much Payton's equal in terms of being an offensive innovator, creative schemes.

I lived through the Jim Mora years, I know why he never won a playoff game, there were 2 main reasons, 1) he never understood to win big games you have to take risks/chances 2) he never made the necessary adjustments during a game, he stuck to the game plan - no matter what....

That works fine in the regular season when your D is pounding inferior opponents.....but not against good teams when the intensity is ramped up....

I think the best thing you can say about Mora is he brought discipline and fostered a decent locker room culture for the most part, and if you are content with just making the playoffs then he was your kind of coach.....

The reason I loved CSP is because he was pretty much the polar opposite of Mora.....

 

[2024InjuryApocalypse]

My 2 cents is that when he was our guy we overlooked the things he said and did because he was our guy, our coach, but maybe because he’s some other teams coach, now it’s easier to see that man he says and does cringe worthy things. Love him for what he did and brought to our team, but there were a lot of times I wish he would’ve just shut up and did his job but I know that’s not him and it’s a big reason the Saints got a trophy.

Payton was a guy whose good points/bad points are linked. His willingness to think outside the box led to moments like the onside kick in the Super Bowl and it times it led to overly convoluted silliness when simplicity would've worked (an example would be one Payton himself even acknowledged at the end of his time here - the 2007 TB play that led to a fumble when we were trying to run clock out). His brashness could sometimes be refreshing, other times it comes off annoying. You take the good with the bad. And when he's your guy, you tend to emphasize the good.

Re: the Denver stuff, he's 100% right about Hackett, who was objectively awful last year. Taking a run at the Jets seemed unnecessary (personally I'm not sure Rodgers has much left in the tank but I'm not sure what spouting off about them accomplishes).

 

[Saint Jack]

I lived through the Jim Mora years, I know why he never won a playoff game, there were 2 main reasons, 1) he never understood to win big games you have to take risks/chances 2) he never made the necessary adjustments during a game, he stuck to the game plan - no matter what....

That works fine in the regular season when your D is pounding inferior opponents.....but not against good teams when the intensity is ramped up....

I think the best thing you can say about Mora is he brought discipline and fostered a decent locker room culture for the most part, and if you are content with just making the playoffs then he was your kind of coach.....

The reason I loved CSP is because he was pretty much the polar opposite of Mora.....

I think Mora is getting lost because he’s getting overshadowed by Payton and his accomplishments. Rightfully so, Payton is now the Saints standard for a coach now.
But Mora was the person that originally changed the culture of the franchise into a competitive one.