New Public Safety Systems (2 Viewers)

[Crzycjunx76]

while still delving into this, i think something that might help tremendously is a youth service
like between the years of 18-28, young adults were 'required' to give 2 years of service - and civil public health and safety was an option for that service

Have you read the book Starship Troopers by any chance... not the movie, the book.

 

[St. Widge]

Have you read the book Starship Troopers by any chance... not the movie, the book.

I have. But, I have a sneaking suspicion that Guido would not be a fan.

 

[Super44]

If the goal is to reorganize the policing system then that’s what they should call it. Defunding the police does make it sound like we’re doing away with it entirely.

Personally I think demilitarizing the police and doing far more extensive training and personality testing is a more practical way to go. I read that in Sweden it takes a few years of training to become a police officer due to training and testing. Following a model like that with a focus on getting to know and understand the community you’re working with seems doable to me.

I’ve talked to a few people on Twitter about this and honestly i can’t see how social workers or restorative justice trained workers can fully take on the duties of police. Yes having people trained in mental health would be great! They need that. They need officers to be better communicators and trained in deescalation. However we also have to admit there are very dangerous situations that come up where an officer does need to use reasonable force on someone who is violently out of control and a danger to those around him.

So yes Im all for reform but we also need to be realistic in our approach

If the goal is to reorganize the policing system then that’s what they should call it. Defunding the police does make it sound like we’re doing away with it entirely.

Personally I think demilitarizing the police and doing far more extensive training and personality testing is a more practical way to go. I read that in Sweden it takes a few years of training to become a police officer due to training and testing. Following a model like that with a focus on getting to know and understand the community you’re working with seems doable to me.

I’ve talked to a few people on Twitter about this and honestly i can’t see how social workers or restorative justice trained workers can fully take on the duties of police. Yes having people trained in mental health would be great! They need that. They need officers to be better communicators and trained in deescalation. However we also have to admit there are very dangerous situations that come up where an officer does need to use reasonable force on someone who is violently out of control and a danger to those around him.

So yes Im all for reform but we also need to be realistic in our approach

First off, competent police are not paid well enough. There isn’t enough in starting pay, and pay raises to attract the best candidates? Did anyone see the recent graduating class of NOPD officers? It was 12-15 new police officers! Sad number. To get the most potenialy competent candidates, you need to make it worth while. You start of with say $80,000/year, now you are going to get some seriously smart and competent candidates. $40,000/year is not even close to attract good candidates. And all police need to have a degree. Not just a high school diploma. Need to make the pay commensurate with the degree and the stringent training requirements.

 

[St. Widge]

If the goal is to reorganize the policing system then that’s what they should call it. Defunding the police does make it sound like we’re doing away with it entirely.

Personally I think demilitarizing the police and doing far more extensive training and personality testing is a more practical way to go. I read that in Sweden it takes a few years of training to become a police officer due to training and testing. Following a model like that with a focus on getting to know and understand the community you’re working with seems doable to me.

I’ve talked to a few people on Twitter about this and honestly i can’t see how social workers or restorative justice trained workers can fully take on the duties of police. Yes having people trained in mental health would be great! They need that. They need officers to be better communicators and trained in deescalation. However we also have to admit there are very dangerous situations that come up where an officer does need to use reasonable force on someone who is violently out of control and a danger to those around him.

So yes Im all for reform but we also need to be realistic in our approach

I agree that you probably can't totally get rid of police, but you can vastly shrink the size by transferring some of their duties to other agencies and ending the "war" on drugs. Better training and psychological testing is part of the answer, but given the "us vs. them", "thin blue line", "having each other's back" attitude that is rampant in police forces, it may be more practical to dissolve them and start from scratch rather than trying to individually get rid of bad officers over the objection of Police Unions. Police Unions are large part of the problem because they are the mechanism that is used to keep bad officers on the force and they help to perpetuate the attitude that is "us vs. them."

 

[jrdbrn]

Average starting police officer salary is $32k a year. If they plan on defunding these departments, it will be interesting to see the quality of applicants.

 

[St. Widge]

Average starting police officer salary is $32k a year. If they plan on defunding these departments, it will be interesting to see the quality of applicants.

If you shrink the size of the departments, you can afford to pay more for higher quality candidates. But first you have to wipe away the corrupt departments and entrenced system that exists.

 

[bclemms]

Hopefully it becomes like Portugal. When I was there hardly saw any police and when I did see them they were very nice and helpful.

Then again, Portugal decriminalization drugs and most of their problems went away.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Have you read the book Starship Troopers by any chance... not the movie, the book.

I have not

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

Average starting police officer salary is $32k a year. If they plan on defunding these departments, it will be interesting to see the quality of applicants.

NOPD as well as many other local departments are begging for applicants and many of them can't pass the background check. Many agencies even waived the requirement that you must reside within their jurisdicition. and still can't get quality applicants.

 

[BooBirdSaint]

Defunding the police is a reckless phrase.
I see it more as limited policing. So the wider powers the police have to "investigate" would be significantly restricted (not sure what that looks like in practice). IMO the police must stop being an instrument of policy and become community stabilizers.
Yes there would be increased demand for increased private security. Right now many communities, apparments, businesses, schools have private security for this very reason. That's the nature of less government policing.
In practice the police are independent of direct government involvement. Is your cities Chief of Police appointed by the Mayor? If so the Chief of your cities police owes his job to that elected official and thier polices. How is that freedom to police responsibility? IMO limited policing starts with the separation of policing and politics.

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

How did they come up with this plan so fast?

Pelosi, top Democrats unveil police reform bill

The bill, dubbed the "Justice in Policing Act," would ban chokeholds, including the kind used by a police officer in the Minneapolis death of George Floyd last month, as well as no-knock warrants in drug cases, as was used in the incident leading to the death of Breonna Taylor in Louisville, Kentucky, in March, according to a bill summary obtained by NBC News and a House Democratic aide.

Do you know what scares the hell out of me more than anything?

federal uniformed police officers

They are proposing to create a Federal Army on Sovereign Soil.

EDIT - And it scares the absolute hell out of me.

 

[St. Widge]

Dismantled, Dissolved, Defunded, whatever they want to call it, it is making one of the 3 balances of power weaker than the other two.

Since when have the Police been part of our system of checks and balances and/or separation of powers?

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

This Twitter thread below highlights one of the biggest problems but also a fairly easy fix. Stop proactive policing from cops cruising around. Put more protocols in place to run a plate. When police go around running every plate they see, whether out of boredom, prejudice, power trip, whatever, an enormous number of unnecessary confrontations between citizens and police are created.



Here is a great (and hilarious) example of this process in action, and one of the very few times it absolutely blew up in the officer's face.

 

[MLU]

I’ve traveled to Europe quite a bit and some places I’ve been have cops who aren’t exactly cops. I think they’re like half-cops or something. They kind of look like school crossing guards and are really friendly. I’d hope for more of those and less of the roving death squad looking-for-trouble type of cops we have here.

I think this is the general idea. Not every crime needs someone with tactical gear and firearms to respond. If there is a traffic violation, then a safety officer would respond to issue citations. If there is a domestic disturbance, then a social worker would respond. If there is someone wandering the streets talking to themselves, then a mental health professional would respond. For a property crime, a detective would respond. Cops would still exist, but be utilized for specific, violent crime concerns and not the general catch-all purposes we see them used for today.

I know this is a strangenidea in America that guns don't really solve any problems, but not every situation calls for someone who is armed to the teeth to compensate for a lack of proper training. I'm sure a lot of people carrying badges now would be repurposed into new positions.

 

[Tapxe]

How did they come up with this plan so fast?

Pelosi, top Democrats unveil police reform bill



Do you know what scares the hell out of me more than anything?



They are proposing to create a Federal Army on Sovereign Soil.

EDIT - And it scares the absolute hell out of me.

I don't get that from your article. The FBI is one such agency and I believe it might be what they are referencing. I saw nothing to indicate any new police force. However, I would share your concern if that is indeed what is proposed.

What gives you that concern of some new federal army creation?