Nick Underhill: Players organizing a Players-Only Meeting (3 Viewers)

[sfidc3]

Good post. You can still be a “leader of men” and hold players accountable without being emotional.

It’s about the HC paying attention to the details and building a culture of accountability. Sean was great at both even as a play caller HC.

DA is not good at either and plays favorites, which undercuts things even further.

Yup, it doesn't require a full on rah rah type coach, at all.....you can cultivate culture and be a lead by example type of coach, there are numerous examples.....DA can't cultivate anything, he just isn't HC material, it was painfully obvious to many of us fairly early on....

 

[RaginSaint93]

So how it go?

 

[SweetT]

So how it go?

Yes, I need that answer as well???

 

[jasonsw]

Yes, I need that answer as well???

Well if NO loses to Carolina we will know how it went.

It really sucks when you wonder if your team can beat this Carolina squad with Young at qb

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

So how it go?

they started the meeting pretty strong, and then quit halfway through.

 

[SweetT]

Well if NO loses to Carolina we will know how it went.

It really sucks when you wonder if your team can beat this Carolina squad with Young at qb

Going into Week 9 and we are 1 game better than them, standings wise. CHURLISH

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

So maybe other folks' experiences were different than mine. I can't dispute that. But don't attribute your experiences to MY coach. He was MY CSP and I was going to make sure I had the right cleats on for coach,

but we're extrapolating here, right?
we're not going to hire your youth football coach, but we're looking at types of leadership
some adult, professional football players would respond well to one type of coach and others not as much
we're not going to find a one type fits all
like drafting and FA selections this is as much alchemy and luck as it is science and psychology
i just hope we might the right/lucky moves

 

[St. Widge]

Yes, I need that answer as well???

I wouldn't hold my breath for information. Not a whole lot of point in a closed door player only meeting if someone is going to come out and say what they talked about or leak it to the media. But maybe Moscona will use his team sources to find out so he can rant about it?

 

[VPCajun]

they started the meeting pretty strong, and then quit halfway through.

How many more injuries occurred???

(Rumor has it that Olave got concussed during the pre-meeting chant...)

 

[St. Geezy]

an environment where my boss states what the standard is, trains me to that standard, and holds me to it (not just lip service); let's it be known when I fall short that it's unacceptable, but recognizes and praises a job well done; a boss that I truly don't want to disappoint? YES, I look for that type of environment.

I've been in environments where they say all the right things, and it sounds like a great culture to work in; but in reality, they don't practice what they preach. Substandard employees are never disciplined, fired, or even re-trained; they just "lean harder" on the top producers and wear them down to the point they quit, or don't care (quit & stay?). Resulting in an entire team of substandard production, but no one seems to understand WHY.

Honestly, the 1st environment is kind of rare, while the 2nd environment is all too common. After moving on from the 2nd environment too many times over the past 40 years, I finally found the 1st and have been there for 25 years and counting. I expect to continue there until I am of retirement age, possibly even beyond that?

Lots of comments about "bully bosses" since my other post. I don't know where this is coming from....maybe folks interjecting THEIR experiences? My pee-wee coach was no "bully". He was "no nonsense". He was the first coach any of us had to state "what you are doing is unacceptable; and then SHOWING us how to do better." And when we did better, he was the first coach to say "attaboy, I KNEW you could do it." Maybe folks missed the part where I said we LOVED this coach. We feared him, because we didn't want to disappoint him or let down our teammates...no one wants to feel like that. But when you did fail, he didn't "pile on", he simply stated "you need to be better...here, let me show you something" which resulted in a tutoring session. Whether it was hand-placement and leverage for a lineman, or showing a RB how to stiff arm, or how to keep those legs CHURNING until you're on the ground....he TAUGHT. I'm not going to pretend I understand all of the dynamics in play back then, but I'd be willing to bet that the REAL issue was a black coach on a team of mostly white youth. That man was the BEST FB coach i had in 6 years of pee-wee football and I didn't care if he was purple....we were learning things we'd never been taught before, by a man who played football at the professional level (even if he never made the Redskins team), and we were having fun because we were competitive. There's a big difference between looking forward to playing the game to see how you'll do; versus going out there to take your lumps like a man, and get it over with, week after week.

So maybe other folks' experiences were different than mine. I can't dispute that. But don't attribute your experiences to MY coach. He was MY CSP and I was going to make sure I had the right cleats on for coach, and bring the Big Red gum (he was also a gum chewer, and team colors were Red & White, but he called us Big Red). People getting too caught up in the details and missing the forest because of the trees. A coach who inspired you to be the BEST you could be, gave you the tools to do it, made it clear that "now it's on you", and celebrated your victories with you. I'm not talking about W-L records...I'm talking about the individual games within a game. I'm 57 years old, and even though it's 45 years later, he is STILL the best coach I ever had (in ANY sport) and I STILL love that man!

I too have experienced different coach types in my life, and for me personally, it was the rah rah, “Bully everyone is afraid of” coaches that got the best results, and the passive ones didn’t.

I do agree that there are different effective ways to lead though and there have been many successful quiet type coaches, to your point, however as I stated before, I think DA’s problem is that he was the in-house immediate follow-up to the Bully/Mean Sheriff type coach, and most importantly, a Bully/Mean Sheriff type coach that got great results.

Players at the NFL level can sense weakness in leadership and unfortunately for DA, the culture created in N.O. was of the SP variety. He was going to have a tough time if he didn’t mimic that, or at least get great results if he wasn’t going to mimic it.

It created a “Weak substitute teacher” vibe, especially with him being so passive with the offensive side of the ball and having a passive type OC as well.

 

[Hedon James]

but we're extrapolating here, right?
we're not going to hire your youth football coach, but we're looking at types of leadership
some adult, professional football players would respond well to one type of coach and others not as much
we're not going to find a one type fits all
like drafting and FA selections this is as much alchemy and luck as it is science and psychology
i just hope we might the right/lucky moves

i get what you're saying, and I agree. One size DOES NOT fit all. And my intention wasn't to extrapolate, or suggest that only 1 type was "correct" for the Saints. I was trying to illustrate that, for the RIGHT coach, players WILL go to the extreme for him! Even if that means "circling the wagons" against outside threats.

The ONLY thing I'm suggesting is that DA isn't that person, and I don't see any players circling the wagons around him. While I don't know what is wrong, that is everything I need to know to be certain that DA is part of the problem. Not sure he's the entire problem, but he's a contributor, and that means he's not part of the solution. I want that coach that players WANT to play for....they seek him out; they don't want to disappoint his faith in them; and they go above and beyond to make sure they aren't the weak link in the chain. I see none of that with DA. If it's there...it's not manifesting itself in a way for anyone outside of Airline Drive to see.

And I couldn't agree with you more on the alchemy & luck, in addition to science & psychology. I hope we get lucky and find the right combination. But we'll never find what we're not looking for.

 

[perret318]

I feel like the personality of the coach isn't as important as whether that coach can use his personality type effectively. Look at Dan Campbell vs Jon Gruden vs Bill Belichick. Vastly different personalities, but all effective coaches. Being a HC is a lot of jobs rolled into one. You need to be a great motivator. You need to know both sides of football in and out. You need to be the coordinator between many sub-teams. You need to be a good talent evaluator. And you need to inspire confidence and teamwork in a bunch of headstrong grown-arse men. And you need to be 100% dedicated all the time.

There's a reason that out of tens of thousands of coaches in America, you can count the truly great ones on two hands. It's a rare combination of traits that make a great NFL head coach. DA is not one of them. It's time the front office puts on their big-boy pants and does something about it. And if they don't, it's time for Ms. Benson to make some top-level changes.

 

[SaintsMan209]

i wonder if Olave stood up and said, "stop throwing hospital balls"

 

[BreesusSaves]

Wound up getting to chat with Mrs. B. after the meeting. Totally unexpected but very pleasant. I feel more encouraged than discouraged. The longer this deathspiral goes the more I find myself getting caught up in the hyperbole, but talking with her gave me some insight into how she likes to operate. She didn't say anything about anyone's fate, and I'm not going to ask for information that isn't given. She did acknowledge she is aware, she hears the fan sentiment and sees the state of the Dome emptying at halftime.

DA talks like a guy who knows he is not getting fired, yet at the same time you could also say he is talking like a guy who knows he is getting fired. The last time the Saints let a coach go mid-season was Rob Ryan, in fact I am pretty sure in the Loomis era, Rob Ryan is the only coach they've ever let go of mid-season?

Also, not a single coach who was a part of the 2009 season, no matter how badly they performed after, was ever let go mid-season.

I would not be shocked at all if they're already looking at Head Coach candidates for 2025 and what it would potentially take to get them here.

 

[Innominate]

They'll never fire Loomis. He'll either retire or Gayle/Lauscha will promote him or something. Until that happens, he's the GM. It is what it is. He's 67, so there's a possibility he could retire sooner than later. We'll see.

Jerry Jones is 82.