Saints at the top of Davante Adams’ wish list [“Saints might just be the favorite” per Fowler; Saints not agreeing on draft pick comp yet] (58 Viewers)

[limeyjohn]

But, but, but……l really wanted Kay Adam’s

 

[St. Geezy]

What's wrong with an embarrassment of riches, it is fool's gold if the middle of the line is a turnstile.

What can we do about that right now though? What’s going to change with that by us getting Adams?

Does “bad line” = stop trying?

 

[SystemShock]

what killed us? the Eagles stacking the line and manhandling our rushing game. Would you stack the box with Adams/Olave and Shaheed on the field. Thats a chunk play waiting to happen.

Absolutely. The center and the RT are turnstiles. You put someone on the QB's face, no matter of it is Jerry Rice/Cris Carter/Randy Moss out there.

And the Eagles didn't stack the box. One player, Jaylen Carter, wrecked the interior of the line all game.

 

[Rexman100]

These are the Saints rushing results the last 4 games. (att/yrds/TDs)

Against the Panthers: 37-180-2
Against the Cowboys:39-190-4
Against the Eagles: 29-89-0.
Against the Falcons: 15-88-0

There's a substantial drop off since McCoy and Taysom got injured. And for a team that runs more than it passes (prior to the Falcons game Carr had not had more than 25 attempts: 23, 19, 25 respectively) that's not good.

Saints didn't need anyone else at WR the first 2 weeks. What the Saints had back then, good QB protection from the interior of the line, which was practically inexistent the last 2 games.

i really like your point. I think this question has to be explored and solved before we add anyone. Was Klint talked out of his gameplan? or did the Eagle and Falcons force Klint out of his gameplan. (i know injuries). But is there more to it? Are the PC remnants pounding the table?

 

[Allen Poe]

These are the Saints rushing results the last 4 games. (att/yrds/TDs)

Against the Panthers: 37-180-2
Against the Cowboys:39-190-4
Against the Eagles: 29-89-0.
Against the Falcons: 15-88-0

There's a substantial drop off since McCoy and Taysom got injured. And for a team that runs more than it passes (prior to the Falcons game Carr had not had more than 25 attempts: 23, 19, 25 respectively) that's not good.

Saints didn't need anyone else at WR the first 2 weeks. What the Saints had back then, good QB protection from the interior of the line, which was practically inexistent the last 2 games.

You used the falcons rushing stats against us there. We were actually 33-131-3 rushing against the falcons.

 

[St. Widge]

Just to address some of the posts here.... I don't think any reasonable fan would say that WR is a bigger need at the moment than say... OLine/TE/Pass Rusher/S....

I don't think there is an argument that there is...

The issue with that line of reasoning is.... There are no players currently available as FAs or in the Trade market at those positions that make the Saints significantly better right now and down the stretch....

There is seemingly, however, a top 5 WR that's available for trade.... and the Saints do need another offensive weapon... right now maybe not as big of a need, but it's still a need.

That's where this discussion starts and ends... the real question is... can the Saints make a trade work... because everything else seems to fit.

**I mean, the Saints tried to trade for Simmons this year and missed... was Safety a bigger need than Oline...? No... It was an opportunity to get a really good player and they went for it**

I get that and they do need a contested catch guy and redzone threat and that Adams can be that guy. But that doesn't mean it makes sense to give up significant future draft assets, add more dead money to the future on the cap, and expend significant cap space over the next 3 years for a 32 year-old WR even if he fills an immediate need.

If I thought the Saints were a Davante Adams away from the Super Bowl then sure, go for it. But, I don't think that's the case. So I think they need to compile draft capital and save cap space to build to the point that they are a player or two away from making a run and need the cap space and draft capital to acquire those guys.

So, again, if the price isn't too high, say a 4th or something close to that and you can find a way to do it that won't kill the future cap, then do it. But I don't want to see Loomis pretending that we are the later years Drew Brees teams that might have been just one player away from making a run.

And, I felt the same way about Simmons both when they tried to trade for him and when they tried to sign him as a free agent. If the price was right, do it, but I though the price rose too high. And, clearly the Saints also felt that there was a point where such a move for an older player didn't make sense.


I mean people constantly cry on here about how the Saints handle the cap and how it has cost them having any depth on the team and can't sing impact free agents. A move for Adams is exactly the kind of move that puts us in that situation. I think it's worth it if he is the final piece to make a championship run. But, I don't think we have the OL, pass rush, or depth to make that run.

 

[Rexman100]

Absolutely. The center and the RT are turnstiles. You put someone on the QB's face, no matter of it is Jerry Rice/Cris Carter/Randy Moss out there.

And the Eagles didn't stack the box. One player, Jaylen Carter, wrecked the interior of the line all game.

why so few run attempts vs ATL? Did Atls D force Klint into another gameplan?

 

[DerrickB]

Take Dallas off the list.

 

[St. Widge]

What can we do about that right now though? What’s going to change with that by us getting Adams?

Does “bad line” = stop trying?

My concern is that Adams could cost us the draft capital and cap space we need to fix the OL and provide depth and starters at other spots in the next 3 years or more if they have to push a bunch of dead money forward.

I guess that's worth it if you think that Adams turns this team into a Super Bowl contender, but I don't think he does.

And as already mentioned, we had plenty enough weapons to score 40 points the first two games and 24 against Atlanta. So, I don't think it's lack of weapons holding this offense back.

 

[SystemShock]

why so few run attempts vs ATL? Did Atls D force Klint into another gameplan?

Probably because the Saints spotted the Falcons 14 points early, and Kubiak panicked.

 

[limeyjohn]

What about a swap for Lattimore and a late round pick ?
Love him but we may end up losing him next year anyway

 

[SonOfNOLA]

But SF already had a solid OL, a good pass rush, and solid depth when they did that. I don't think we have any of those things so I don't think Adams is the last piece. Frankly, we are one injury to AK away from not having a running game and SF did have solid RBs before they got McCaffrey. In fact, outside of LB and CB, we are one injury away from being bad at most positions.


If they do the deal for Adams I hope I'm wrong and he is the final piece, but I just don't see this team like that. I just think with the way the roster is currently structured, everything would have to go perfectly right to even win a playoff game and things have already started to go wrong with injuries and stupid mistakes by Shaheed and the defense.

But, again, if they can get Adams for relatively little draft pick compensation and they can cut the hell out of his cap hit then sure do it.

Saints are tied at 10th in NFL in sacks. 2 sacks away from being t-4th in the NFL. Pass rush has been very good. They’ve consistently wreaked havoc on QBs every week to this point. They’ve made crucial sacks on key 3rd downs each week against Prescott, Hurts & Cousins. Thats without Chase Young filling up the stat sheet in sacks yet but he has a ton of pressures. Carl, Chase and Payton Turner are a very talented group of 3 DEs. They won’t trade for another pass rusher while 2 of those 3 are active to go with Cam’s snaps.

The OL is good enough for a winning team. I’d say the scheme has them looking above average. With a healthy Ruiz, there’s confidence in the interior OL going into each week until McCoy comes back. Some games may be up and down against talented D-Lines but that doesn’t mean the OL unit is terrible imo.

Teams aren’t readily trading away starting level OL and DL. A starting level lineman won’t become another team’s depth unless multiple starters are missing extended time or the units have poor play. Saints have neither circumstances. The trenches is where the coaching staff coaches up in scheme and technique like they were able to with Lemieux and Landon Young in Week 4. The DL already has depth at edge.

An OL is a bigger “need” than WR but we aren’t finding an OL who matches the caliber of Adams as a WR. Whenever Olave or Shaheed goes down, the pass offense goes down with them and becomes very shaky in options to throw to. Thats where Adams comes into play to provide another surefire reliable target in every part of the field. Have to take the opportunity to get a player like Adams when its there if the cap structure is able to come together for the deal.

 

[GTSaint]

So many times you hear about a great player looking to be traded. But the cost is too much for the Saints. Then that player gets traded for a 6th round pick and a conditional 2035 7th rounder or something like that. Why can’t that happen for us?
Of course, the Raiders might still be mad about us not trading for Carr so they had to cut him and we were able to pick him up without compensation to the Raiders.

 

[SystemShock]

Debatable... I thought they did.

It is not debatable. The Saints scored the 3rd highest point total in the first 2 games in NFL history. They'd have scored more if they let off the 4th quarter.

But if that's not good enough... Everything schematically changed.... when McCoy went down.... TH7 got hurt.... and Olave started playing on 1 hammy.

But again... that's besides the point. There aren't players at other need positions available... A top 5 WR is.... Just like a top 5 Safety was available when we went after Simmons... we had other more important needs then, and we have other more important needs now... there are not options there now that make the team better.... a top 5 WR makes the team better now... why not go after that if you think it's do-able?

Because a "top 5 WR" (top 5 in what?) doesn't make the team better, when the QB has 2-3 defenders on top of him, and the team primarily runs the ball.

 

[St. Widge]

Saints are tied at 10th in NFL in sacks. 2 sacks away from being t-4th in the NFL. Pass rush has been very good. They’ve consistently wreaked havoc on QBs every week to this point. They’ve made crucial sacks on key 3rd downs each week against Prescott, Hurts & Cousins. Thats without Chase Young filling up the stat sheet in sacks yet but he has a ton of pressures. Carl, Chase and Payton Turner are a very talented group of 3 DEs. They won’t trade for another pass rusher while 2 of those 3 are active to go with Cam’s snaps.

The OL is good enough for a winning team. I’d say the scheme has them looking above average. With a healthy Ruiz, there’s confidence in the interior OL going into each week until McCoy comes back. Some games may be up and down against talented D-Lines but that doesn’t mean the OL unit is terrible imo.

Teams aren’t readily trading away starting level OL and DL. A starting level lineman won’t become another team’s depth unless multiple starters are missing extended time or the units have poor play. Saints have neither circumstances. The trenches is where the coaching staff coaches up in scheme and technique like they were able to with Lemieux and Landon Young in Week 4. The DL already has talent at edge.

An OL is a bigger “need” than WR but we aren’t finding an OL who matches the caliber of Adams as a WR. Whenever Olave or Shaheed goes down, the pass offense goes down with them and becomes very shaky in options to throw to. Thats where Adams comes into play to provide a surefire reliable target in every part of the field. Have to take the opportunity to get a player like Adams when its there if the cap structure is able to come together for the deal.

I mean, 3 1/2 of those sacks are from a blitzing Slot CB and 3 of those 3 1/2 were in one game. But, it was clear against Atlanta that the pass rush isn't good enough. If you can't get pressure against Cousins against that banged up Atlanta line, you have issues. Certainly they will have better games of and on in the future since I think Granderson and Young are good pass rushers, but at this point neither is elite and they lack that elite guy to do things like stop drives in the final 2 minutes. That lack of a pass rusher to shut games down is as much of the issue for the late game D as the mistakes that were made by Howden and Adebo. Cam Jordan used to be that guy, but he isn't anymore.

The OL has been okay in pass protection in every game but the Philly game, but Kubiak is having to do a lot of keeping TEs, RBs, and FBs in to help which more than a lack of weapons has limited the offense. And when the OL is working and we can run the ball, we have scored 40 two times and 24 one time. I just don't see how you score that many points if there is a vital need for another weapon. And, the one time the offense was really held down was when Carter destroyed the interior line. It wasn't a lack of weapons that killed us against Philly, it was Carter and the 5 man front. Adams certainly would make the offense better but I don't see him as the difference maker. This season will come down to whether DA can figure out how to get consistent pressure on the QB, along with stopping the run, and if Kubiak can continue to cover for a below average offensive line and make them look above average.

Anyway, like I said for the right price go get Adams, but don't mortgage the future for him.