Breaking! Saints fired Dennis Allen (2 Viewers)

[Rexman100]

It was Gayle's decision, period.

i dont believe this, i think they simply played their next winning card, in Rizzi. To play it required DA to go. (ML had to go against his philosophy to do so)

 

[bigdub81]

Allen was basically the equivalent of Cutler Beckett taking fire from the Pearl and Dutchman on both sides while aimlessly striding down the stairs under the guise that “It’s just good business” while it’s complete chaos around him. Everyone saw it this year, last year and the year before except him. I didn’t like his hiring because it was Loomis still grasping at what remnants Sean left behind, but in no way was Allen the person to try and pick up where Payton left off. Now 3 years of suffering are hopefully over and we can get things corrected in some fashion.

 

[TheFly]

Every coach and player in the NFL knew Dennis Allen lost the Saints locker room after that Falcons game. They talk amongst each other.

Think about your workplace. Yall know everything thats going on even if there are other branches. Yall hear stuff, we all do.

 

[St. Widge]

It IS overblown. It’s a long term accounting project, not a hard cap.

If we wanted Hopkins, we could have gotten Hopkins.

People are only critical of it because they get anxious seeing negatives on singular future years and don’t know what the team’s internal numbers look like.

I do think it's a bit overblown, but at the same point you can go too far with it and end up hurting your flexibility by having a bunch of void years on the end of an older player's contract or the contract of a player you want to part ways with. And, if the unexpected happens like COVID, you end up losing players like Marcus Williams and Armstead.

So, it does put a premium on making sure you are giving contracts to the right older players. It also puts a premium on being good in the the draft, particularly the mid-to-late rounds of the draft to fill out your depth and roster with quality players that you can't really go get in free agency. Of course, the draft is the key for all teams, but I think the way the Saints do the cap makes it even more important.

Regarding flexibility there probably aren't a lot of players they do want to walk away from but it's clear that Cam is at the point where he needs to retire or take a big pay cut. If he refuses either of those you are stuck with a lot of dead weight and if he does retire you are stuck with some dead cap due to the void years on this contract. Then there is Carr. While I don't think DA had any intention of walking away from Carr, but the next head coach may want to cut or trade him. And to do that they would have to take some extreme measures that they may not want to do.

 

[St. Widge]

Every coach and player in the NFL knew Dennis Allen lost the Saints locker room after that Falcons game. They talk amongst each other.

Think about your workplace. Yall know everything thats going on even if there are other branches. Yall hear stuff, we all do.

I barely know what's going on in my office much less in other offices.

 

[HattiesburgWhoDat]

Yep. Loomis even mentioned in the NOF interview that he thinks one of the reasons this is an attractive job is because this is a "first class organization" with a good reputation around the league. I think he thinks part of that is that it's a team that tends not to fire coaches mid-season, gives them time to prove they deserve the job, and does whatever they can do financially to give the coach the team he wants.

I understand the thought about not firing a coach in mid-season. Although in this case I don't think it makes the organization look like they panicked or jumped the gun. Any potential coach can see how abysmal Dennis Allen was doing and that there was not hardly any other choice but to fire him mid season. I don't think that would keep a potential coach for coming to coach here. This situation was just so bad that was really all that could be done.

 

[St. Geezy]

I do think it's a bit overblown, but at the same point you can go too far with it and end up hurting your flexibility by having a bunch of void years on the end of an older player's contract or the contract of a player you want to part ways with. And, if the unexpected happens like COVID, you end up losing players like Marcus Williams and Armstead.

So, it does put a premium on making sure you are giving contracts to the right older players. It also puts a premium on being good in the the draft, particularly the mid-to-late rounds of the draft to fill out your depth and roster with quality players that you can't really go get in free agency. Of course, the draft is the key for all teams, but I think the way the Saints do the cap makes it even more important.

Regarding flexibility there probably aren't a lot of players they do want to walk away from but it's clear that Cam is at the point where he needs to retire or take a big pay cut. If he refuses either of those you are stuck with a lot of dead weight and if he does retire you are stuck with some dead cap due to the void years on this contract. Then there is Carr. While I don't think DA had any intention of walking away from Carr, but the next head coach may want to cut or trade him. And to do that they would have to take some extreme measures that they may not want to do.

Absolutely, you still have to plan well and be responsible with it, or else the project could blow up in your face.

The cosmetics make it appear every year like the project has blown up in our faces, but the truth is, the team is ALWAYS looking 20 steps ahead of the fanbase, the media, and websites like OTC and Sportrac.

It gets treated as though these numbers are sneaking up on the team each off-season and like they’re scrambling to figure out what to do, when the truth is, they knew what they were going to do months, sometimes even years in advance and they just haven’t turned in the paperwork yet and prefer to only make those transactions at the moment they absolutely have to.

 

[Domeination]

I take it as he wanted to move on, but didn’t want to do it in the middle of the season.

Likely pressure from the players finally made him take the step

Mrs. Benson is the one who intervened and had Allen fired.

 

[St.Fury]

I take it as he wanted to move on, but didn’t want to do it in the middle of the season.

Likely pressure from the players finally made him take the step

Which was my speculation on Loomis for weeks, that he doesn’t like to fire coaches mid-season. He wanted to wait until it was over.

 

[Rexman100]

Random,

Did anyone listen to the Carr interview? He mentioned how they ran more plays yesterday in practice than they've done since he's been here, and one of the complaints that came out per Underhill is that the guys weren't praciticing hard enough under Allen.

I do recall the Vilma/Brees days of saying that Friday's were an aboslute BATTLE during our SB run. Doesn't sound like the players were getting those types of looks in practice and that may be why some guys just looked unprepared at times.

I listened to a coach a few days ago and he was saying penalties like holding happen when a guy does something that you don't expect and so you're reaction is to execute a hold. That's preparation. I just continue to find it crazy how Rizzi has come in and made these changes that were staring Allen right in the fact and he refused to just do something different.

yea i picked up on that too. I also picked up on Carrs reaction to the little changes. By saying "i hope these little changes culminate to wins" On the surface, ok sure thats the right thing to say. But i also read into it: This guy Carr has been through so many mid season regime changes, that these changes wont effect him, and hes one person that needs the changes to effect. I could imagine Rattler or Haener really buying into the changes... see where im going with this.?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

yea i picked up on that too. I also picked up on Carrs reaction to the little changes. By saying "i hope these little changes culminate to wins" On the surface, ok sure thats the right thing to say. But i also read into it: This guy Carr has been through so many mid season regime changes, that these changes wont effect him, and hes one person that needs the changes to effect. I could imagine Rattler or Haener really buying into the changes... see where im going with this.?

Not as much, I think he's echoing what Loomis said. The change is good, guys have pep in their step, you can see a difference from the players, but we have to see does that stick ie...does it lead to winning. Assuming they do would be naive, so his response fits what I'd expect someone to say in that scenario. It's a we'll see thought process.

Yet, you know at this point, thinking hasn't helped anyone. I'm just hopping it FEELS different from everyone.

 

[Rexman100]

Every coach and player in the NFL knew Dennis Allen lost the Saints locker room after that Falcons game. They talk amongst each other.

Think about your workplace. Yall know everything thats going on even if there are other branches. Yall hear stuff, we all do.

if we were 0-9 id agree. But we won 2 games in dominating style. Did the players tell DA, hey, you can have the locker room back, but only for two games, then you're done!

 

[Super]

Yes, but what tends to separate them more than anything, other than having a franchise QB, is whether the team has a good ownership group and front office that gives the coach the money he needs to build his staff and get the players he wants. I mean, even despite having Burrow, the situation with the Bengals isn't as attractive as it should be because their ownership is cheap and won't spend money to build the team and coaching staff around Burrow.

Oh I agree. For sure sone jobs are certainly more attractive than others. Money, fame and fortune is surly better in Dallas than Cleveland, even with dealing with Jerrah.
My only point was short of stealing a head coach from another team, just about any assistant or college coach would jump at the chance to be an NFL head coach

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Yep. Loomis even mentioned in the NOF interview that he thinks one of the reasons this is an attractive job is because this is a "first class organization" with a good reputation around the league. I think he thinks part of that is that it's a team that tends not to fire coaches mid-season, gives them time to prove they deserve the job, and does whatever they can do financially to give the coach the team he wants.

Once the Payton/Brees Era teams started rolling the folks who run the Saints used to tell people they were the "NFC Patriots" (back when that was a very flattering comparison). They clearly hold themselves in very high regard and believe the Saints are among the League's premier teams like the Steelers, Giants, 49ers, Cowboys.

For a few years there, they might have been right, but I'm not sure they rest of the league has felt that way in some time. From the results on the field to the NFLPA surveys, the story seems to be the opposite.

As my old boss would say, if you could buy Loomis for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth, you'd make a lot of money.

They need some new blood in there - in the same way Rizzi is shaking up the on field product with things like stretching (LOL), they need a cold-eye review of the entire football operation. I think they might find out they are operating a 2010 team in 2024.

 

[HouseCall]

I don’t disagree with the notion that you typically don’t get much out of making a change mid-season…but there’s always an outlier.

This team was in full locker room revolt. Players were giving reduced effort and making business decisions.

If you try to run another 8 weeks of that, you risk losing a portion of a very weary fan base.

Sometimes change isn’t just for changes sake.