Saints looking to trade up?!!!..... [MERGED] (1 Viewer)

[eballa1]

some thoughts on all these crazy rumors

 

[canuckredux]

Where in the world do you get this idea?

Dorsey - 6'2" 297lbs: 51 games/179 tackles(83 solo)/13.sacks for -93yds/27stops for loss of 123yds/4 pass deflections/ caused and recovered a fumble

Ellis - 6'1" 309lbs: 48 games/144 tackles(74 solo)/17.5 sacks for -130 yds/28.5 stops for loss of 158 yds/13 pass deflection/ caused 2 fumbles, recovered 4

Ellis can bench over 500lbs, benched 225 more than Dorsey (36 to 27), had a higher vertical jump (30" to 25.5"), and was faster in the 40 (5.01 to 5.14).

Now, while these are all stats and may not measure certain "intangibles", every place I have check says pretty much the same thing about both. "Non-stop motor" excellent instincts, etc.. I am not by any means saying one is BETTER than the other. You can decide that when they have both been in the league for 5 years. Truth be told, they have both had injury issues throughout their college careers, I think it's just that Dorsey's were more recent that people always bring his up.

BUT, what I am saying is that to say it isn't even close is a little far fetched. What I am also saying is what it would take for us to move up to selct Ellis in the draft is MORE than worth it vs. what it would take to move up to selct Dorsey. I am just thinking big picture in for what I see as two VERY comparable players.

It's only natural for people who live in a region to believe that the local player will be better because he gets more press and is more well-known. This is not to say that everyone is a "homer" by any means and therefore incapable of objectivity, but it's certainly understandable for anyone who follows the scene closely to have more exposure than anyone to players, local and abroad, however, the locals will always get more press in that region... added to the fact that, by most accounts, Dorsey IS the better prospect.

Personally, I'm a big USC fan and watch every game that I can and I like to think that I've got a pretty good knowledge of the game. I've seen a lot of Ellis and, to me, the guy's a stud. He's a clean player: Has all the college production that you are looking for as an indicator of pro potential and the measurables and intangibles to apply it at the next level. I like LSU and have seen several games and Dorsey looks very much the same. I didn't see anything in those games or subsequent highlight reels or workouts that would indicate a major separation between the two. They both look like blue-chip prospects who will be stars at the next level... but only time will tell.

 

[bergeaux]

That's not true. The Dolphins would have to change their entire defensive scheme if they picked Dorsey. Parcells is a 3-4 guy and wants to play that defense.

Not the way that BC describes him. The way the he describes him, it shouldn't matter.

 

[LSSpam]

Almost all the "experts" are saying that Dorsey and Ellis are 1a and 1b.

Not that I particularly care what "experts" think, you're wrong. They really aren't. Dorsey is very clearly #1 and Ellis #2. There's never been any confusion about that except for the silly rumors about Dorsey's health (which he squashed at his pro-day). No one has ever, ever, ever said they were "1a and 1b".

 

[LSSpam]

Not the way that BC describes him. The way the he describes him, it shouldn't matter.

Either you're intentionally being obtuse or *TOS prohibits*

 

[eballa1]

Agree, Dorsey is the top defensive prospect. Hands down, no questions asked. Kiper is so high on him, he'd pick him #1 no matter what.

 

[canuckredux]

Not that I particularly care what "experts" think, you're wrong. They really aren't. Dorsey is very clearly #1 and Ellis #2. There's never been any confusion about that except for the silly rumors about Dorsey's health (which he squashed at his pro-day). No one has ever, ever, ever said they were "1a and 1b".

Actually, Mayock has always been saying that, but Mayock's credibility is very much in question.

 

[LSSpam]

Agree, Dorsey is the top defensive prospect. Hands down, no questions asked. Kiper is so high on him, he'd pick him #1 no matter what.

I don't know that he's the top defensive prospect, but it's bizarre for anyone to argue Ellis is "right there with him". Unless you're not satisfied with his health there's just not really any debate whatsoever.

 

[Saintsfans27]

It's only natural for people who live in a region to believe that the local player will be better because he gets more press and is more well-known. This is not to say that everyone is a "homer" by any means and therefore incapable of objectivity, but it's certainly understandable for anyone who follows the scene closely to have more exposure than anyone to players, local and abroad, however, the locals will always get more press in that region... added to the fact that, by most accounts, Dorsey IS the better prospect.
.

I realize this. I was just trying to shed some light on the situation for those that may not know any of the differences between the two.

The fact is, there is NOT a huge seperation between the two, if there is any at all. I would not argue the point that either one was "better" than the other. I just don't see the points that people are using to actualy back up the idea that they think one is CLEARLY better than the other.

 

[canuckredux]

I realize this. I was just trying to shed some light on the situation for those that may not know any of the differences between the two.

The fact is, there is NOT a huge seperation between the two, if there is any at all. I would not argue the point that either one was "better" than the other. I just don't see the points that people are using to actualy back up the idea that they think one is CLEARLY better than the other.

Hey, man, I'm on your side. Both are awesome.

 

[Saintsfans27]

Hey, man, I'm on your side. Both are awesome.

I know, I'm on your side too. With the exception I'm not a USC fan. ; ) I'm Maize and Blue all the way through, but you guys have handed it to us the last couple of times we've met up.

 

[Bukowski]

One player is NOT going to make this team, regardless of who that player is.

I love Dorsey as much as the next guy, but no one in any draft is worth mortaging away this year and next years draft, it's just not worth it for a team with many more question marks than defensive tackle.

Whether everyone wants to admit it or not, we have question marks all over this team. No one knows which Vilma is going to show up. No one knows which Dan Morgan will show up. Mike McKenzie is still rehabbing, so is Deuce Mac. We all watched Jason David and Josh Bullocks get demolished all last season, yet the only thing that has been added to the secondary was Randall Gay.

And of course, we're still going to have to come up with contracts for Marques Colston, Will Smith and a few others next year. So who knows what will come out of those contract situations.

So obviously, Dorsey would be a great addition to the team, but defensive tackle is far from the only position that we need to be worried about. We need all of our draft picks and will probably need a few starters out of this current draft class.

We do not have the luxury to trade away multiple picks this year, realistically is just doesn't make sense.

 

[jcron504]

i dont know about giving up that much for dorsey when we could trade up for another dt who's just about as good and wont cost us so much. so if we do trade up all the way to number 2 pick, i dont think we'd use it on a dt. I still want to pick a corner to be honest. Our run defense was solid last year, and we improved the linebacking corps. I think the secondary should be our top priority. I like the idea of trading down for lito sheppard, but DRC or the corner from troy could also be solid.

 

[bergeaux]

Not that I particularly care what "experts" think, you're wrong. They really aren't. Dorsey is very clearly #1 and Ellis #2. There's never been any confusion about that except for the silly rumors about Dorsey's health (which he squashed at his pro-day). No one has ever, ever, ever said they were "1a and 1b".

Spam, I really like ya man. You're smart and usually very well informed. However, be careful to make such sweeping and absolute statements. Watch this video:

NFL Video Galleries

Ellis ahead of Dorsey. Now watch the bottom of the screen on this one. This is way back from the combine. Mayock has Ellis listed AHEAD of Dorsey in his player rankings:

NFL Video Galleries

Did you see it? Ellis listed #3 player, Dorsey listed #4. Don't say "ever, ever, ever" Mayock is considered an expert for sure and he said they were 1a and 1b for a LONG time on the NFL Network. I don't know how he ranks it now, but on Path to the Draft he said this so many times about those two I can't count it.

There have been others that have said this, but that's at least one "expert".

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Not the way that BC describes him. The way the he describes him, it shouldn't matter.

I am quoting Charley Casserly, who knows Parcells quite well. I would tend to believe his analysis on this subject.