Saints looking to trade up?!!!..... [MERGED] (2 Viewers)

[tarusman28]

Sorry Buickman but most fans here so caught up with the fact that saints wanting to trade to the 2nd pick that they DON'T want to believe that the Rams themselves want Glenn Dorsey at that pick.

Even Jim Hasslett came out after LSU pro day saying that he wants Dorsey.

If I'm wrong then so be it.

 

[BIGPOPPA]

I love Dorsey and I would love to see him in the B&G, however, there's no way I'd trade multiple picks to move up. We have had terrible luck in the past doing this. I know Dorsey is no Sullivan, but we have to learn our lesson from that deal. None of these guys have played a down of Pro Football and no matter how much they dominated the College ranks, they can still struggle in the NFL. (Ex: Reggie Bush)
I say we stay pat or maybe move up a couple of spots at the most. I have never believed in giving up picks from next year's draft, especially a 1st. We have too many spots to fill.

 

[Purple Haze]

I understand that the team may be looking for short term fan support, but I personally am looking for long term winning. I think that is a longer term win for the team.

If he turns out as well as we hope, having DT sewn up for 10 years is about as good as you can get.

 

[bclemms]

Glenn Dorsey is significantly ahead of Sedrick Ellis.

Ellis is a rare commodity in his own right, a try-hard guy with great work ethic . . . at 300lbs. He's a very safe bet at DT, and that's unusual. 300lbs aren't usually known for their effort and work ethic.

But in terms of flat-out physical talent Ellis isn't in the same hemisphere as Dorsey. In fact, I imagine Ellis will end up being a 2-gap NT type before it's all said and done, because he just doesn't strike me as a potentially dominate pass rusher at the NFL level. Dorsey is.

Dorsey isn't Warren Sapp. Who is? But Dorsey is as close as we've gotten since Warren Sapp himself. There's a clear gap between Dorsey and Ellis

Yep, Ellis has become over-hyped on this board since most realize it would be very difficult to move up to get Dorsey. They aren't the same player, it isn't even close. I see Ellis being a good pro that gives good effort with good physical tools. I don't see him being an elite player. Dorsey is the type of guy that go to ten straight Pro Bowls and anchor a great defense.

Like Spam said, there has been no DT that has been as attractive in the draft since Sapp. Dorsey has the size, talent, work ethic and motor to be a sure fire first round pick but he has perhaps the best technique, footwork and he uses his hands better than any rookie I have seen at the DT position which makes him a sure fire top 3 pick. He plays with outstanding leverage, holds his ground even against double teams and if an offensive lineman trying to block him makes the smallest mistake Dorsey will make him pay. DT's typically aren't NFL ready right out of the draft and if they are they typically don't play at a high level their first year. Dorsey is an exception he was NFL ready last year but decided to stay his Senior year and plays the position like a 5 year vet. He may not be able to penetrate and get to the QB like Sapp did but he will be just as disruptive and will do it his rookie year.

Dorsey will change the ways offensive coordinators game plan against us. Ellis is not that guy but he will be an upgrade.

 

[bclemms]

I'm not in favor of losing any more draft picks in rounds 2 - 3 this year or next. Everything I've read indicates that this is a deep draft and that contributors can be had in those rounds. Considering draft history and team needs, I think more lower picks is much more important than jumping up for one person. It's just too risky. It's like playing the market - the best route is to diversify!

It's not as if the team is only a DT away from being a SB contender, either. There are still serious question marks at RB, LB and CB. As much as I love Dorsey and Ellis, I honestly think the team would be better served to take Rivers, McElvin or DRC at 10 and get a serviceable DT in round 2 while still able to get a RB in 3.

No way do I want to see them give up next years #1 either!

Considering how vehemently opposed I am to the idea of this trade, and the fact that it's the Saints, I guess it's pretty much a done deal. They trade with the Rams for the #2 and take Ellis.

I think this may be the weakest draft since last year. Seriously though, this is a weak draft class just like last year. Dorsey is one of the very few sure things. I would love McKelvin at #10 but doubt he will be there and after that anybody that really fills a need for this team is a reach. I am not big on the talent from the late 1st round through the early 4th round outside of the RB position. I do think this draft is loaded with potential type players in the later rounds and some teams will strike gold but for the most part this is a very weak draft. As far as next year's 1st round pick goes, that is too expensive because we are one injury away from having a top ten pick. IMO next years draft will also be weak unless there are a slew of Juniors to come out because the 2010 class is looking very good.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Sorry Buickman but most fans here so caught up with the fact that saints wanting to trade to the 2nd pick that they DON'T want to believe that the Rams themselves want Glenn Dorsey at that pick.

Even Jim Hasslett came out after LSU pro day saying that he wants Dorsey.

If I'm wrong then so be it.

Haslett is not the GM,meaning he doesn't make the pick. I've seen plenty mocks with DE and OT rated above DT for the Rams.

 

[canuckredux]

Glenn Dorsey is significantly ahead of Sedrick Ellis.

Ellis is a rare commodity in his own right, a try-hard guy with great work ethic . . . at 300lbs. He's a very safe bet at DT, and that's unusual. 300lbs aren't usually known for their effort and work ethic.

But in terms of flat-out physical talent Ellis isn't in the same hemisphere as Dorsey. In fact, I imagine Ellis will end up being a 2-gap NT type before it's all said and done, because he just doesn't strike me as a potentially dominate pass rusher at the NFL level. Dorsey is.

Dorsey isn't Warren Sapp. Who is? But Dorsey is as close as we've gotten since Warren Sapp himself. There's a clear gap between Dorsey and Ellis

QFT. I completely disagree with the notion that there is a big difference between the two and so do many people who know a lot more about scouting than we do. Dorsey and Ellis are very similar players, both prototypical 3-techs and are close in ability. No point in arguing, though; time will tell.

Don't forget that Sapp himself was a mere 12th overall pick.

 

[Conrad]

QFT. I completely disagree with the notion that there is a big difference between the two and so do many people who know a lot more about scouting than we do. Dorsey and Ellis are very similar players, both prototypical 3-techs and are close in ability. No point in arguing, though; time will tell.

Don't forget that Sapp himself was a mere 12th overall pick.

Sapp would have gone in the top 5 if their had not been a bogus drug rumor started about him.

 

[Saints382]

No one seems to think the Rams will stay put and take Dorsey?

They could do that...

Most likely as well, since I don't think Loomis will give up many picks...but who knows.

 

[Saintsfans27]

Yep, Ellis has become over-hyped on this board since most realize it would be very difficult to move up to get Dorsey. They aren't the same player, it isn't even close.

Glenn Dorsey is significantly ahead of Sedrick Ellis.

But in terms of flat-out physical talent Ellis isn't in the same hemisphere as Dorsey.

There's a clear gap between Dorsey and Ellis

Where in the world do you get this idea?

Dorsey - 6'2" 297lbs: 51 games/179 tackles(83 solo)/13.sacks for -93yds/27stops for loss of 123yds/4 pass deflections/ caused and recovered a fumble

Ellis - 6'1" 309lbs: 48 games/144 tackles(74 solo)/17.5 sacks for -130 yds/28.5 stops for loss of 158 yds/13 pass deflection/ caused 2 fumbles, recovered 4

Ellis can bench over 500lbs, benched 225 more than Dorsey (36 to 27), had a higher vertical jump (30" to 25.5"), and was faster in the 40 (5.01 to 5.14).

Now, while these are all stats and may not measure certain "intangibles", every place I have check says pretty much the same thing about both. "Non-stop motor" excellent instincts, etc.. I am not by any means saying one is BETTER than the other. You can decide that when they have both been in the league for 5 years. Truth be told, they have both had injury issues throughout their college careers, I think it's just that Dorsey's were more recent that people always bring his up.

BUT, what I am saying is that to say it isn't even close is a little far fetched. What I am also saying is what it would take for us to move up to selct Ellis in the draft is MORE than worth it vs. what it would take to move up to selct Dorsey. I am just thinking big picture in for what I see as two VERY comparable players.

 

[bergeaux]

I love Dorsey and I would love to see him in the B&G, however, there's no way I'd trade multiple picks to move up. We have had terrible luck in the past doing this. I know Dorsey is no Sullivan, but we have to learn our lesson from that deal. None of these guys have played a down of Pro Football and no matter how much they dominated the College ranks, they can still struggle in the NFL. (Ex: Reggie Bush)
I say we stay pat or maybe move up a couple of spots at the most. I have never believed in giving up picks from next year's draft, especially a 1st. We have too many spots to fill.

Well said. And Bill Pollian (probably the best GM in the NFL) said the same thing in a recent article...

 

[canuckredux]

Sapp would have gone in the top 5 if their had not been a bogus drug rumor started about him.

When you're 300+ lbs and run a 4.69 40, those sorts of rumours are going to come about.

 

[cdogg]

When you're 300+ lbs and run a 4.69 40, those sorts of rumours are going to come about.

I think the rumor was that he failed his drug test at the combine, and I don't know if it was a rumor or true?

 

[bergeaux]

Yep, Ellis has become over-hyped on this board since most realize it would be very difficult to move up to get Dorsey. They aren't the same player, it isn't even close. I see Ellis being a good pro that gives good effort with good physical tools. I don't see him being an elite player. Dorsey is the type of guy that go to ten straight Pro Bowls and anchor a great defense.

I can understand it if you were to say the entire NFL community was over-hyping Ellis, but to say it's just confined to the board is to ignore what's being said out there. Almost all the "experts" are saying that Dorsey and Ellis are 1a and 1b. You cannot say that we on this board have in particular over-hyped Ellis past what others are saying. While I think you would be way out on limb to say so, you would have to generalize the statement to the entire NFL community. What you see is a reflection of the generally accepted beliefs of the "draft experts" from what I have read and watched.

Like Spam said, there has been no DT that has been as attractive in the draft since Sapp. Dorsey has the size, talent, work ethic and motor to be a sure fire first round pick but he has perhaps the best technique, footwork and he uses his hands better than any rookie I have seen at the DT position which makes him a sure fire top 3 pick. He plays with outstanding leverage, holds his ground even against double teams and if an offensive lineman trying to block him makes the smallest mistake Dorsey will make him pay. DT's typically aren't NFL ready right out of the draft and if they are they typically don't play at a high level their first year. Dorsey is an exception he was NFL ready last year but decided to stay his Senior year and plays the position like a 5 year vet. He may not be able to penetrate and get to the QB like Sapp did but he will be just as disruptive and will do it his rookie year.

Dorsey will change the ways offensive coordinators game plan against us. Ellis is not that guy but he will be an upgrade.

If Dorsey was such a guaranteed impact, the Dolphins would not pass on him. Long is considered a very good OT, but he isn't even considered as good as Joe Thomas and he wasn't picked one. IF Dorsey was that big of a deal, he would be #1 hands down and we wouldn't be able to trade up for him anyway.

I think you are drinking the local water koolaid just a little bit too much.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

If Dorsey was such a guaranteed impact, the Dolphins would not pass on him. Long is considered a very good OT, but he isn't even considered as good as Joe Thomas and he wasn't picked one. IF Dorsey was that big of a deal, he would be #1 hands down and we wouldn't be able to trade up for him anyway.

I think you are drinking the local water koolaid just a little bit too much.

That's not true. The Dolphins would have to change their entire defensive scheme if they picked Dorsey. Parcells is a 3-4 guy and wants to play that defense.