Saints looking to trade up?!!!..... [MERGED]

[canuckredux]

Sapp would have gone in the top 5 if their had not been a bogus drug rumor started about him.

When you're 300+ lbs and run a 4.69 40, those sorts of rumours are going to come about.

 

[cdogg]

When you're 300+ lbs and run a 4.69 40, those sorts of rumours are going to come about.

I think the rumor was that he failed his drug test at the combine, and I don't know if it was a rumor or true?

 

[bergeaux]

Yep, Ellis has become over-hyped on this board since most realize it would be very difficult to move up to get Dorsey. They aren't the same player, it isn't even close. I see Ellis being a good pro that gives good effort with good physical tools. I don't see him being an elite player. Dorsey is the type of guy that go to ten straight Pro Bowls and anchor a great defense.

I can understand it if you were to say the entire NFL community was over-hyping Ellis, but to say it's just confined to the board is to ignore what's being said out there. Almost all the "experts" are saying that Dorsey and Ellis are 1a and 1b. You cannot say that we on this board have in particular over-hyped Ellis past what others are saying. While I think you would be way out on limb to say so, you would have to generalize the statement to the entire NFL community. What you see is a reflection of the generally accepted beliefs of the "draft experts" from what I have read and watched.

Like Spam said, there has been no DT that has been as attractive in the draft since Sapp. Dorsey has the size, talent, work ethic and motor to be a sure fire first round pick but he has perhaps the best technique, footwork and he uses his hands better than any rookie I have seen at the DT position which makes him a sure fire top 3 pick. He plays with outstanding leverage, holds his ground even against double teams and if an offensive lineman trying to block him makes the smallest mistake Dorsey will make him pay. DT's typically aren't NFL ready right out of the draft and if they are they typically don't play at a high level their first year. Dorsey is an exception he was NFL ready last year but decided to stay his Senior year and plays the position like a 5 year vet. He may not be able to penetrate and get to the QB like Sapp did but he will be just as disruptive and will do it his rookie year.

Dorsey will change the ways offensive coordinators game plan against us. Ellis is not that guy but he will be an upgrade.

If Dorsey was such a guaranteed impact, the Dolphins would not pass on him. Long is considered a very good OT, but he isn't even considered as good as Joe Thomas and he wasn't picked one. IF Dorsey was that big of a deal, he would be #1 hands down and we wouldn't be able to trade up for him anyway.

I think you are drinking the local water koolaid just a little bit too much.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

If Dorsey was such a guaranteed impact, the Dolphins would not pass on him. Long is considered a very good OT, but he isn't even considered as good as Joe Thomas and he wasn't picked one. IF Dorsey was that big of a deal, he would be #1 hands down and we wouldn't be able to trade up for him anyway.

I think you are drinking the local water koolaid just a little bit too much.

That's not true. The Dolphins would have to change their entire defensive scheme if they picked Dorsey. Parcells is a 3-4 guy and wants to play that defense.

 

[eballa1]

some thoughts on all these crazy rumors

 

[canuckredux]

Where in the world do you get this idea?

Dorsey - 6'2" 297lbs: 51 games/179 tackles(83 solo)/13.sacks for -93yds/27stops for loss of 123yds/4 pass deflections/ caused and recovered a fumble

Ellis - 6'1" 309lbs: 48 games/144 tackles(74 solo)/17.5 sacks for -130 yds/28.5 stops for loss of 158 yds/13 pass deflection/ caused 2 fumbles, recovered 4

Ellis can bench over 500lbs, benched 225 more than Dorsey (36 to 27), had a higher vertical jump (30" to 25.5"), and was faster in the 40 (5.01 to 5.14).

Now, while these are all stats and may not measure certain "intangibles", every place I have check says pretty much the same thing about both. "Non-stop motor" excellent instincts, etc.. I am not by any means saying one is BETTER than the other. You can decide that when they have both been in the league for 5 years. Truth be told, they have both had injury issues throughout their college careers, I think it's just that Dorsey's were more recent that people always bring his up.

BUT, what I am saying is that to say it isn't even close is a little far fetched. What I am also saying is what it would take for us to move up to selct Ellis in the draft is MORE than worth it vs. what it would take to move up to selct Dorsey. I am just thinking big picture in for what I see as two VERY comparable players.

It's only natural for people who live in a region to believe that the local player will be better because he gets more press and is more well-known. This is not to say that everyone is a "homer" by any means and therefore incapable of objectivity, but it's certainly understandable for anyone who follows the scene closely to have more exposure than anyone to players, local and abroad, however, the locals will always get more press in that region... added to the fact that, by most accounts, Dorsey IS the better prospect.

Personally, I'm a big USC fan and watch every game that I can and I like to think that I've got a pretty good knowledge of the game. I've seen a lot of Ellis and, to me, the guy's a stud. He's a clean player: Has all the college production that you are looking for as an indicator of pro potential and the measurables and intangibles to apply it at the next level. I like LSU and have seen several games and Dorsey looks very much the same. I didn't see anything in those games or subsequent highlight reels or workouts that would indicate a major separation between the two. They both look like blue-chip prospects who will be stars at the next level... but only time will tell.

 

[bergeaux]

That's not true. The Dolphins would have to change their entire defensive scheme if they picked Dorsey. Parcells is a 3-4 guy and wants to play that defense.

Not the way that BC describes him. The way the he describes him, it shouldn't matter.

 

[LSSpam]

Almost all the "experts" are saying that Dorsey and Ellis are 1a and 1b.

Not that I particularly care what "experts" think, you're wrong. They really aren't. Dorsey is very clearly #1 and Ellis #2. There's never been any confusion about that except for the silly rumors about Dorsey's health (which he squashed at his pro-day). No one has ever, ever, ever said they were "1a and 1b".

 

[LSSpam]

Not the way that BC describes him. The way the he describes him, it shouldn't matter.

Either you're intentionally being obtuse or *TOS prohibits*

 

[eballa1]

Agree, Dorsey is the top defensive prospect. Hands down, no questions asked. Kiper is so high on him, he'd pick him #1 no matter what.

 

[canuckredux]

Not that I particularly care what "experts" think, you're wrong. They really aren't. Dorsey is very clearly #1 and Ellis #2. There's never been any confusion about that except for the silly rumors about Dorsey's health (which he squashed at his pro-day). No one has ever, ever, ever said they were "1a and 1b".

Actually, Mayock has always been saying that, but Mayock's credibility is very much in question.

 

[LSSpam]

Agree, Dorsey is the top defensive prospect. Hands down, no questions asked. Kiper is so high on him, he'd pick him #1 no matter what.

I don't know that he's the top defensive prospect, but it's bizarre for anyone to argue Ellis is "right there with him". Unless you're not satisfied with his health there's just not really any debate whatsoever.

 

[Saintsfans27]

It's only natural for people who live in a region to believe that the local player will be better because he gets more press and is more well-known. This is not to say that everyone is a "homer" by any means and therefore incapable of objectivity, but it's certainly understandable for anyone who follows the scene closely to have more exposure than anyone to players, local and abroad, however, the locals will always get more press in that region... added to the fact that, by most accounts, Dorsey IS the better prospect.
.

I realize this. I was just trying to shed some light on the situation for those that may not know any of the differences between the two.

The fact is, there is NOT a huge seperation between the two, if there is any at all. I would not argue the point that either one was "better" than the other. I just don't see the points that people are using to actualy back up the idea that they think one is CLEARLY better than the other.

 

[canuckredux]

I realize this. I was just trying to shed some light on the situation for those that may not know any of the differences between the two.

The fact is, there is NOT a huge seperation between the two, if there is any at all. I would not argue the point that either one was "better" than the other. I just don't see the points that people are using to actualy back up the idea that they think one is CLEARLY better than the other.

Hey, man, I'm on your side. Both are awesome.