Saints looking to trade up?!!!..... [MERGED] (1 Viewer)

[Saint Droopy]

Spam, I really like ya man. You're smart and usually very well informed. However, be careful to make such sweeping and absolute statements. Watch this video:

NFL Video Galleries

Ellis ahead of Dorsey. Now watch the bottom of the screen on this one. This is way back from the combine. Mayock has Ellis listed AHEAD of Dorsey in his player rankings:

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Did you see it? Ellis listed #3 player, Dorsey listed #4. Don't say "ever, ever, ever" Mayock is considered an expert for sure and he said they were 1a and 1b for a LONG time on the NFL Network. I don't know how he ranks it now, but on Path to the Draft he said this so many times about those two I can't count it.

There have been others that have said this, but that's at least one "expert".

I remember seeing that too when it was on "live"... he (Mayock) has since backed off that statement, but you're absolutely right.

 

[Bukowski]

Spam, I really like ya man. You're smart and usually very well informed. However, be careful to make such sweeping and absolute statements. Watch this video:

NFL Video Galleries

Ellis ahead of Dorsey. Now watch the bottom of the screen on this one. This is way back from the combine. Mayock has Ellis listed AHEAD of Dorsey in his player rankings:

NFL Video Galleries

Did you see it? Ellis listed #3 player, Dorsey listed #4. Don't say "ever, ever, ever" Mayock is considered an expert for sure and he said they were 1a and 1b for a LONG time on the NFL Network. I don't know how he ranks it now, but on Path to the Draft he said this so many times about those two I can't count it.

There have been others that have said this, but that's at least one "expert".

Good post.

I agree that Spam probably shouldn't have made such a broad, definitive statement.

Everyone has their own thoughts and opinion, we all should remember that.

 

[LSSpam]

There have been others that have said this, but that's at least one "expert".

Well, I guess that's why I don't ever bother reading these draft websites or watch these draft shows

Look, i'm not an expert by any means and no one really cares about my opinion (certainly not enough to pay me for it), but I don't think i'm putting myself out there in saying there's a clear and definite difference between Dorsey and Ellis, and Dorsey's on top. I just don't think that's putting myself out there.

And I am the very definition of "not an LSU homer"

 

[Bukowski]

Well that's fine for that to be your opinion, as it probably is the correct one.

But it was wrong to say that there shouldn't be any debate whatsoever, as I'm sure there are others that disagree.

That's the difference. You just didn't leave any room for anyone to disagree.

 

[bergeaux]

Well, I guess that's why I don't ever bother reading these draft websites or watch these draft shows

Look, i'm not an expert by any means and no one really cares about my opinion (certainly not enough to pay me for it), but I don't think i'm putting myself out there in saying there's a clear and definite difference between Dorsey and Ellis, and Dorsey's on top. I just don't think that's putting myself out there.

And I am the very definition of "not an LSU homer"

I agree, you're not an LSU homer. And I do agree with you that Dorsey is a better prospect than Ellis, but I don't think he's leap years ahead of Ellis the way that so many on this board seem to think he is. I think he's just a bit better. Definitely not worth the extra cost to get him from where we are.

And by the way, on a general basis I value your opinion a lot. I seriously do. But I am also mature enough to disagree on this and still value your opinion.

 

[Saintsfans27]

And I do agree with you that Dorsey is a better prospect than Ellis, but I don't think he's leap years ahead of Ellis the way that so many on this board seem to think he is. I think he's just a bit better. Definitely not worth the extra cost to get him from where we are.

I agree with this sentiment 100%. edit: Well, maybe 99.9%. I'm not convinced either is better. I think they have different strength and weaknesses that could be valuable/problematic in the NFL.

Well, I guess that's why I don't ever bother reading these draft websites or watch these draft shows

Look, i'm not an expert by any means and no one really cares about my opinion (certainly not enough to pay me for it), but I don't think i'm putting myself out there in saying there's a clear and definite difference between Dorsey and Ellis, and Dorsey's on top. I just don't think that's putting myself out there.

And I am the very definition of "not an LSU homer"

See post #265.

 

[bergeaux]

I agree with this sentiment 100%.




See post #265.

I'll repost it for ya, since I think it was one the best posts in this thread:

Where in the world do you get this idea?

Dorsey - 6'2" 297lbs: 51 games/179 tackles(83 solo)/13.sacks for -93yds/27stops for loss of 123yds/4 pass deflections/ caused and recovered a fumble

Ellis - 6'1" 309lbs: 48 games/144 tackles(74 solo)/17.5 sacks for -130 yds/28.5 stops for loss of 158 yds/13 pass deflection/ caused 2 fumbles, recovered 4

Ellis can bench over 500lbs, benched 225 more than Dorsey (36 to 27), had a higher vertical jump (30" to 25.5"), and was faster in the 40 (5.01 to 5.14).

Now, while these are all stats and may not measure certain "intangibles", every place I have check says pretty much the same thing about both. "Non-stop motor" excellent instincts, etc.. I am not by any means saying one is BETTER than the other. You can decide that when they have both been in the league for 5 years. Truth be told, they have both had injury issues throughout their college careers, I think it's just that Dorsey's were more recent that people always bring his up.

BUT, what I am saying is that to say it isn't even close is a little far fetched. What I am also saying is what it would take for us to move up to selct Ellis in the draft is MORE than worth it vs. what it would take to move up to selct Dorsey. I am just thinking big picture in for what I see as two VERY comparable players.

 

[REBEL_SOUL]

i still say we do the HONORABLE thing...spread the "dorsey does marijuana rumor", save our draft picks, don't trade up, and wait for him to fall in our lap at 10.

Ala Warren Sapp? -- Im down!
All is fair in love and war rooms, right?

 

[St. David]

I have watch USC games alot and I can't remember what game it was but Sed Ellis played one play after the second half kickoff and ran off the field because he was tired after see that I don't want him. I see him as Grady Jackson who is a very good DT and he was about the same type build when he came out in 1997.(Jackson measured 6 feet 2 1/8 inches, weighed 315 pounds and ran 40 yards in 5.05 seconds coming out of Knoxville College in 1997)
So If we trade up for him I will be upset because I simpley do not beleive he is worth giving up picks or players to get him I would take Laws over him.




I would like to see us move up for Dorsey or move down and pick Mayo or a OT.

 

[eballa1]

I say move up. We are a team built to win now. We don't need a project CB at #10.

 

[Saintsfans27]

I say move up. We are a team built to win now. We don't need a project CB at #10.

No doubt. If we were going to spend a "lot" on a CB, it should have been the one that went to Philly. Other than that, I think we can work with what we have if we get pressure on the QB. I can only remember ONE game last year where we did that for 4 quarters. ESPECIALY if we do get Shockey. If we have a TE of that caliber, I think we'll be more along the line of the Rams "greatest show on turf" years or Indy of late. (Yes, I know Indy didn't win the SB until their D got better.)

 

[Bukowski]

I say move up. We are a team built to win now. We don't need a project CB at #10.

We didn't win last year.

Why are we built to win now?

Randall Gay isn't going to fix the secondary.

We don't know what we have in Jon Vilma.

We really don't know what we have in Dan Morgan.

So what do we have this year, that we didn't have last year?

 

[Rich Jr]

If the Rams trade down I have to think they're looking at Clady.

 

[robsmith32]

can't believe, i read through this whole thing.. and not one person noted the fact that E. Orgeron, our DL coach.., yes it was noted Orgeron spent lot of times with dorsey at his proday, also noted he's the one that recruited ellis for USC... but Orgeron is the very one that ran the DL drills for Dorsey.... He's intimately familiar with BOTH players.. didnt' ole miss play LSU a few times? or was it miss st?
If the saints are that high on Dorsey over Ellis, i'd be all for it.. right now, i'd take either, as i reall don't know much between the 2 other than what has been said here..
But I'd take our coaches who have worked with both individual's value for them.
I think Either one, makes us a better run stopping team instead of the smoke & mirrors which costed us a ton in pass defense.. Cause the CB's & safeties were having to bite on every play action. Leaving the WR open to the endzone.
With a DT like these, it helps with making qb's hurry the throw, causing innacuracy, it causes them not to have to stay with a wr as long.. Plus, they don't have to have eyes in the back of heads for the RB.
I don't see a surefire CB, LB, or safety in this draft, where either of these guys are surefire DT. so you're playing roll the dice on having more players, but not necessarily more that would contribute, except maybe special teams.
I'd gladly take a G. Dorsey or Ellis And if the coach says Dorsey after personally working with both of them... over all the M. Mitchell's(granted not fair him being a bottom pick, the FIncher's, the bockwolds, the molden's......
IF you know there is one SURE thing.. well...
and those who throw out Dorseys health.. um he played through injuries, and ellis sat out with injuries.. um i know which i'd want when i absolutely needed it.

 

[canuckredux]

I have watch USC games alot and I can't remember what game it was but Sed Ellis played one play after the second half kickoff and ran off the field because he was tired after see that I don't want him. I see him as Grady Jackson who is a very good DT and he was about the same type build when he came out in 1997.(Jackson measured 6 feet 2 1/8 inches, weighed 315 pounds and ran 40 yards in 5.05 seconds coming out of Knoxville College in 1997)
So If we trade up for him I will be upset because I simpley do not beleive he is worth giving up picks or players to get him I would take Laws over him.




I would like to see us move up for Dorsey or move down and pick Mayo or a OT.

No offense, but that is a horrible analogy. Ellis is a high motor guy and if he came off after one play, there would be a reason for it... and if you watched a lot of USC games then you might offer more insight into that narrow, one-dimensional post.