Saints planned to interview Mike McCarthy; McCarthy didn’t garner enough interest from Saints and will take a year off (8 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

My understanding is that the coaches tell the scouts the traits and abilities they prioritize, then the scouts use that as the basis for their evaluations and rankings. If that's accurate, then the scouts could be accurately evaluating and ranking players based on the parameters the coaches gave them, but the coaches parameters are flawed leading to draft choices that don't work out.

It could also be the coaching the players get after they are drafted doesn't develop them properly.

My understanding is that the Saints set prototypes based on the average height/weight/speed/quickness, etc. of the average players at each position and they try to stay close to those numbers in players they draft. They will go outside of those prototypes, but the guy has to have a special quality that makes him an exception to the rule that players that don't meet those numbers don't make it at that position.

Anway, my further understanding is that the scouts just scout guys and issue reports on each player. Then at some point before the draft Loomis, Ireland, the HC, and now Mueller and maybe Parenton, stack the draft board based on how those guys fit into the schemes the team runs. Then when the draft comes, in the early round Loomis, the HC, and Ireland try to reach a consensus on each pick which is has almost always happened. If they can't Loomis makes the final decision. But in the middle to later round they rely heavily on Ireland to pick the players.

If that is how it works, it could be an issue at any level from the scouts to Ireland, to the HC, and to Loomis. The HC is changing but it has changed before and the results are similar so it seems likely we have issues either with the Scouts, Ireland or Loomis. Or all three. But since Loomis defers to his HC on players in the vast majority of cases, I suspect he is not the issue on this one specific thing (yes he has other issues and isn't likely good at player evaluation). So I think it comes down to Ireland or the scouts and Ireland picks the scouts.

That being said, you are right that a lot of it could be a lack of developing good players by the coaching staff.

 

[blackjack]

Nick stopped just short of guaranteeing Weaver won’t get the job yesterday on their show.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I didn’t see that coming. Helps explain a few things with the Saints urgency to get an in person with Moore.

Yeah I’ve seen it posted a few places online, would make sense as you say, if it’s got some truth to it. I imagine it does.

MM is still my hope, we shall see how it all ends up.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

My understanding is that the Saints set prototypes based on the average height/weight/speed/quickness, etc. of the average players at each position and they try to stay close to those numbers in players they draft. They will go outside of those prototypes, but the guy has to have a special quality that makes him an exception to the rule that players that don't meet those numbers don't make it at that position.

Anway, my further understanding is that the scouts just scout guys and issue reports on each player. Then at some point before the draft Loomis, Ireland, the HC, and now Mueller and maybe Parenton, stack the draft board based on how those guys fit into the schemes the team runs. Then when the draft comes, in the early round Loomis, the HC, and Ireland try to reach a consensus on each pick which is has almost always happened. If they can't Loomis makes the final decision. But in the middle to later round they rely heavily on Ireland to pick the players.

If that is how it works, it could be an issue at any level from the scouts to Ireland, to the HC, and to Loomis. The HC is changing but it has changed before and the results are similar so it seems likely we have issues either with the Scouts, Ireland or Loomis. Or all three. But since Loomis defers to his HC on players in the vast majority of cases, I suspect he is not the issue on this one specific thing (yes he has other issues and isn't likely good at player evaluation). So I think it comes down to Ireland or the scouts and Ireland picks the scouts.

That being said, you are right that a lot of it could be a lack of developing good players by the coaching staff.

To your first, I truly truly hope that they change that prototype deal, especially for their edges.

 

[trashman]

Nick stopped just short of guaranteeing Weaver won’t get the job yesterday on their show.

Yeah I also thought the same. He is definitely a heavy underdog.

The book I look at is usually on point with its odds. Underdogs do win sometimes but I think this is MM's job. In the end, we will all find out together. Like all, I am ready to find our coach so we can get ready for the draft and free agency along with seeing who are the other coaches.

 

[Elvis]

The never ending “we keep kicking the can down the road” bit, insinuates that he only has one way of doing things. That’s near sighted bc we did it for a good part of SP’s tenure. ML structures deals with a plan. His plan has now shifted a bit, but yet we have people still complaining about the salary cap. It’s not a 1 year thing. We will be good salary cap wise soon. So I am not worried, unless he goes loco with restructures. I’m just concerned about the new HC hire

There is a big difference between the small amount of contracts we did that with the majority of time Sean was here and what we've been doing the last 3 or 4 years. Huge difference. One was trying to maximize the championship window while the team was good, now we're doing it out of addiction to doing it even though we're not a good team. As far as being good cap wise soon, if you had looked at 2025 in 2023, you could have said the same thing then. We were just a couple of years and a couple of drafts away. But here we are.

 

[St. Widge]

To your first, I truly truly hope that they change that prototype deal, especially for their edges.

Yep. I think it has cost them because there are so few guys that fit the prototype that they end up reaching for raw ability which ends up busting. Although I think they had to do it to play the scheme they were playing. Which is why I really hope they go to a 3-4 or a 4-3 hybrid that uses those smaller/faster/quicker Edge guys that we normally pass on.

 

[St. Widge]

There is a big difference between the small amount of contracts we did that with the majority of time Sean was here and what we've been doing the last 3 or 4 years. Huge difference. One was trying to maximize the championship window while the team was good, now we're doing it out of addiction to doing it even though we're not a good team. As far as being good cap wise soon, if you had looked at 2025 in 2023, you could have said the same thing then. We were just a couple of years and a couple of drafts away. But here we are.

A lot of that was the Carr deal, right?

 

[SweetT]

There is a big difference between the small amount of contracts we did that with the majority of time Sean was here and what we've been doing the last 3 or 4 years. Huge difference. One was trying to maximize the championship window while the team was good, now we're doing it out of addiction to doing it even though we're not a good team. As far as being good cap wise soon, if you had looked at 2025 in 2023, you could have said the same thing then. We were just a couple of years and a couple of drafts away. But here we are.

Covid year also threw a wrench in things. ML was/is heavily reliant on the salary cap increase by year. He, sorta got caught off guard, and he was forced to do contracts he wasn’t planning on. I don’t fault him for that, being that no one saw that pandemic stuff happening

 

[Elvis]

Covid year also threw a wrench in things. ML was/is heavily reliant on the salary cap increase by year. He, sorta got caught off guard, and he was forced to do contracts he wasn’t planning on. I don’t fault him for that, being that no one saw that pandemic stuff happening

Lots of things can catch a team off guard that weren’t planned for. An injury like Ram, an underperforming playing like Byrd, a new coach that wants a different QB, or a bad apple like Junior Galette.

 

[sfidc3]

The fact that Dallas didn’t hire Kellen Moore because they didn’t think he could lead men. Should mean something. Instead they chose a career assistant instead in Shottenheimer

That's odd, I would take the complete opposite viewpoint.....it means something, but probably more that this is why the Cowboys.....are the Cowboys....

Also, I'm warming up to Moore being the guy, seems like it might be a good risk to take....

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

The fact that Dallas didn’t hire Kellen Moore because they didn’t think he could lead men. Should mean something. Instead they chose a career assistant instead in Shottenheimer

Hadn’t heard this. If true I’ll still be open minded as imo we couldn’t get any less a leader of men than we just had as HC. (DA, not Rizzi)

 

[DaveXA]

Lots of things can catch a team off guard that weren’t planned for. An injury like Ram, an underperforming playing like Byrd, a new coach that wants a different QB, or a bad apple like Junior Galette.

Sure, but Covid had a larger, more detrimental impact on that kind of strategy, so it hurt much worse than if a different approach had been taken.

Not right or wrong, just unlucky.

 

[Elvis]

Sure, but Covid had a larger, more detrimental impact on that kind of strategy, so it hurt much worse than if a different approach had been taken.

Not right or wrong, just unlucky.

The cap went down ~$15 million. All other teams had to deal with it as well. Only one still has it as an excuse 5 years later.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

The cap went down ~$15 million. All other teams had to deal with it as well. Only one still has it as an excuse 5 years later.

That’s a good counter point imo.