Saints planned to interview Mike McCarthy; McCarthy didn’t garner enough interest from Saints and will take a year off (8 Viewers)

[Saintcd]

It's not really a different discussion. It hurt the strategy because it wasn't / isn't a good strategy and it's never even benefited the team in any meaningful way. The Covid shortfall was much smaller than what we've had to eat sitting on Ram's contract. We took on $17m in dead money to cut Galette. That $15 million should not be an excuse in 2025 and we certainly didn't learn from it because we're still doing it.

People believe what they want to believe because it fits their narrative. The fact that only 1 team could not overcome a 15 mil decrease in the last 5 years used to be considered a fact, until it doesn’t line up with a narrative. The reason no other teams manage their cap like the saints is telling in how bad the strategy is. ML playing with dogecoin, until it bit him.

 

[greatshow25]

The cap went down ~$15 million. All other teams had to deal with it as well. Only one still has it as an excuse 5 years later.

Before I say this I'm not defending the practice, but the cap went down 15.7 but they didn't get the increase they were expecting. the cap increased at least 10 million for 5 consecutive seasons. So if you projected your cap jumping from 198.2 to somewhere around 209-210 million to dropping to 182.5 million. The decrease is more like 25-26 million. That's a drastic change once you are already maxed out and already spent the money. They had to touch more contracts they in 2021 than they most likely wanted to which pushed more dead cap and they had to keep adjusting those salaries. That is one of the main reasons I didn't want Carr at that contract. They could of signed a cheap vet at a low salary and the cap would have been in better shape but they most likely would of spent it elsewhere.

 

[Elvis]

Before I say this I'm not defending the practice, but the cap went down 15.7 but they didn't get the increase they were expecting. the cap increased at least 10 million for 5 consecutive seasons. So if you projected your cap jumping from 198.2 to somewhere around 209-210 million to dropping to 182.5 million. That's a drastic change once you are already maxed out and already spent the money. They had to touch more contracts they in 2021 than they most likely wanted to which pushed more dead cap and they had to keep adjusting those salaries. That is one of the main reasons I didn't want Carr at that contract. They could of signed a cheap vet at a low salary and the cap would have been in better shape but they most likely would of spent it elsewhere.

The covid year certainly exposed the strategy as being too risky. That it was doubled down on by signing Carr to that contract shows that nothing was learned from it. Some will say that was the only way to sign him and I say then maybe we shouldn't have signed him.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

What happens when they still aren't ballin in year 2 and they still have $65 million on the cap over the following two years. Well of course, just add some void years because we all know they can't afford to cut them and replace them with better players.

isnt it close to the same result. If a player X is sign to 4 year contract there will be dead cap if cut in 2 years even in not my extreme example. So if you want the contract more front loaded contract if we pay more up front for new incoming player Y like we want and we end up paying less dead cap for player X we still paying more for new player Y in current year. We still paying but proportions are different. Unless i'm missing something

 

[Elvis]

isnt it close to the same result. If a player X is sign to 4 year contract there will be dead cap if cut in 2 years even in not my extreme example. So if you want the contract more front loaded contract if we pay more up front but the new incoming player Y like we want and we end up paying less dead cap for player X we still paying more for new player Y in current year. We still paying but proportions are different. Unless i'm missing something

If you pay more up front base salary or even guaranteed salary then by the time year 3 rolls around, all or most of the guarantees are gone and you can cut the player.

The way it is now, they make peanuts for the first two years that they aren't good and you can't cut them so they are still on the team in years 3 and 4. And to make them fit under the cap, you have to guarantee even more salary by converting base salary to signing bonuses that are usually extended into void years. That leaves you with a player you no longer want in years 3 and 4 and a big dead cap hit in year 5 for a player that's on another team now.

 

[DaveXA]

It's not really a different discussion. It hurt the strategy because it wasn't / isn't a good strategy and it's never even benefited the team in any meaningful way. The Covid shortfall was much smaller than what we've had to eat sitting on Ram's contract. We took on $17m in dead money to cut Galette. That $15 million should not be an excuse in 2025 and we certainly didn't learn from it because we're still doing it.

That's not relevant to my point, but whatever. You see what you want to see.

 

[St. Geezy]

isnt it close to the same result. If a player X is sign to 4 year contract there will be dead cap if cut in 2 years even in not my extreme example. So if you want the contract more front loaded contract if we pay more up front for new incoming player Y like we want and we end up paying less dead cap for player X we still paying more for new player Y in current year. We still paying but proportions are different. Unless i'm missing something

Preach!

It’s the same difference, same problem just packaged differently. It’s what I have been trying to say for the longest.

It’s not a “strategy.” It is just a different way of handling the books that creates a different version of the same problem. In the end, it all boils down to who gets the money, and drafting well, just like everyone else.

We are blaming the wrong thing for our problems here. We have whiffed too much.

What team is signing a free agent like Carr to a big money deal and not getting in trouble two years later if it hasn’t worked out??? Denver, and their “healthy” cap, is going through it right now with Russell Wilson.

 

[DaveXA]

I feel Loomis plays the salary cap like a central banker printing money. Its all fun and games until inflation shows itself.

Except inflation is pretty much a given, or at the very least it's cyclical. Covid happens once in a hundred years. Not really a valid comparison.

 

[Taker597]

Next year roster looks really bad.

So, I think this cap strategy has been clearly reach quite unsustainable approach for a couple of years now to be honest.

-We don't have a DB #1 or #2 on the roster
-Starting Safety is HB and Howden
-Linebacker is Pete and a declining Davis
-DL is brutal.... Ganderson and Breesee are it with a declining Cam Jordan. You got Saunders and that's it.

Defense should be worst in the league next season.

Then, the offense...

You still don't have a L guard. You can argue that your R guard isn't good enough.

Penning is solid, but is he good enough to transform the oline. I don't know. 3rd offense in 3 years. The 2nd one was built around maximizing him.

Taysom is probably out till September. So, your #1 TE is Foster.

Shaheed coming off a broken leg and Olave is probably getting traded after that last big concussion.

Running back Room is still same 3 guys. An often injured Kamara and Miller. Last and least, Jamal Williams

You know the QB room. If they really want to commit to a real vision. They should trade Carr, but they financially might not want too..

I be surprised if we can get more than 5 wins. We are going to be less talented than last year.

 

[trashman]

Except inflation is pretty much a given, or at the very least it's cyclical. Covid happens once in a hundred years. Not really a valid comparison.

For me its valid as its how I see him conduct business. Hey we all have to find our way and nothing wrong with that.

 

[Elvis]

Next year roster looks really bad.

So, I think this cap strategy has been clearly reach quite unsustainable approach for a couple of years now to be honest.

-We don't have a DB #1 or #2 on the roster
-Starting Safety is HB and Howden
-Linebacker is Pete and a declining Davis
-DL is brutal.... Ganderson and Breesee are it with a declining Cam Jordan. You got Saunders and that's it.

Defense should be worst in the league next season.

Then, the offense...

You still don't have a L guard. You can argue that your R guard isn't good enough.

Penning is solid, but is he good enough to transform the oline. I don't know. 3rd offense in 3 years. The 2nd one was built around maximizing him.

Taysom is probably out till September. So, your #1 TE is Foster.

Shaheed coming off a broken leg and Olave is probably getting traded after that last big concussion.

Running back Room is still same 3 guys. An often injured Kamara and Miller. Last and least, Jamal Williams

You know the QB room. If they really want to commit to a real vision. They should trade Carr, but they financially might not want too..

I be surprised if we can get more than 5 wins. We are going to be less talented than last year.

Which is a very good reason to clear as much cap as possible and play a bunch of league minimum UDFA's and draft picks. Let them get a crash course. The good ones will rise to the top and the team will be in a better position to draft high in 2026 and have a little bit of cap space to work with.

 

[trashman]

Next year roster looks really bad.

So, I think this cap strategy has been clearly reach quite unsustainable approach for a couple of years now to be honest.

-We don't have a DB #1 or #2 on the roster
-Starting Safety is HB and Howden
-Linebacker is Pete and a declining Davis
-DL is brutal.... Ganderson and Breesee are it with a declining Cam Jordan. You got Saunders and that's it.

Defense should be worst in the league next season.

Then, the offense...

You still don't have a L guard. You can argue that your R guard isn't good enough.

Penning is solid, but is he good enough to transform the oline. I don't know. 3rd offense in 3 years. The 2nd one was built around maximizing him.

Taysom is probably out till September. So, your #1 TE is Foster.

Shaheed coming off a broken leg and Olave is probably getting traded after that last big concussion.

Running back Room is still same 3 guys. An often injured Kamara and Miller. Last and least, Jamal Williams

You know the QB room. If they really want to commit to a real vision. They should trade Carr, but they financially might not want too..

I be surprised if we can get more than 5 wins. We are going to be less talented than last year.

LOL!!!!! Super bowl futures next year

 

[St. Geezy]

Next year roster looks really bad.

So, I think this cap strategy has been clearly reach quite unsustainable approach for a couple of years now to be honest.

-We don't have a DB #1 or #2 on the roster
-Starting Safety is HB and Howden
-Linebacker is Pete and a declining Davis
-DL is brutal.... Ganderson and Breesee are it with a declining Cam Jordan. You got Saunders and that's it.

Defense should be worst in the league next season.

Then, the offense...

You still don't have a L guard. You can argue that your R guard isn't good enough.

Penning is solid, but is he good enough to transform the oline. I don't know. 3rd offense in 3 years. The 2nd one was built around maximizing him.

Taysom is probably out till September. So, your #1 TE is Foster.

Shaheed coming off a broken leg and Olave is probably getting traded after that last big concussion.

Running back Room is still same 3 guys. An often injured Kamara and Miller. Last and least, Jamal Williams

You know the QB room. If they really want to commit to a real vision. They should trade Carr, but they financially might not want too..

I be surprised if we can get more than 5 wins. We are going to be less talented than last year.

As long as you have future year cap space that you can withdraw from in unlimited fashion, you always have cap space.

We have no priority free agents of our own to re-sign, so that too is making our cap look worse than it is.

We can stack more people on top of this year’s roster.

The salary cap is a rolling 5+ year period, not a single year thing.

EDIT: I should add to this that you still have to be responsible and always looking 5 steps ahead so that you don’t trap yourself…this was a part of the decision to reset and let things get back to a certain mean this past offseason. Give yourself room to play. The Carr deal busting especially messed us up, just as a contract of that size would for every other team.

 

[DaveXA]

Exactly, Some in here I know are in finance and you hear these CEO's sell you these projections for next quarter. The problem is all these projections are in a vacuum, a perfect world. When a hiccup happens , a good CEO prepared for this day and can sail his people out of the storm with no issues into calmer waters.

Then you have some CEO's that allowed a minor hiccup to cause a tremendous amount of damage. I see the man's vision and it worked for a while. Then covid came and said hold my beer.

Now we are at a point where we see if this GM can fix it or be forced into retirement forever known as the guy nobody wanted to come work for due to his mishaps. I am truly pulling for the guy as we all are. We all want the Saints to be successful. Its why we are die hard fans.

It's why I didn't comment about what he's done since Covid. They were hamstrung for at least a couple of seasons because of it and when they hired Allen, should have started really making the hard choices and Loomis didn't because he thought they could win with Allen and the roster he had. Which we all know with hindsight that was a terrible decision.

The strategy did work to some degree pre-Covid when the team almost got to the SB. They were competitive until Payton left.

It takes a while to unwind all of that, and Loomis was slow to do it. They should have ripped the band-aid off 2 years ago.

It's all water under the bridge now. They just will have to make the most of less than ideal circumstances.

 

[trashman]

It's why I didn't comment about what he's done since Covid. They were hamstrung for at least a couple of seasons because of it and when they hired Allen, should have started really making the hard choices and Loomis didn't because he thought they could win with Allen and the roster he had. Which we all know witch hindsight that was a terrible decision.

The strategy did work to some degree pre-Covid when the team almost got to the SB. They were competitive until Payton left.

It takes a while to unwind all of that, and Loomis was slow to do it. They should have ripped the band-aid off 2 years ago.

It's all water under the bridge now. They just will have to make the most of less than ideal circumstances.

I am 100% onboard with you here. They will have to make the most of it and somehow try to be competitive. Is what it is and lets hope they can do it.