Saints re-sign Young and Simoneau [MERGED] (3 Viewers)

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And also you are correct there are no FA DT's, but even better there are trade partners for Rodgers, Stroud, and Robertson...all better than Young. Those guys can be had for 5th or 6th round picks...Rodgers an exception...would probably take a little more. Like I said Young is a great backup and a VERY VERY VERY average starter. Teams aren't blind...if he was as good as you believe he would be making some visits and commanding some interest. That he is not.
 
morals99 said:
And also you are correct there are no FA DT's, but even better there are trade partners for Rodgers, Stroud, and Robertson...all better than Young. Those guys can be had for 5th or 6th round picks...Rodgers an exception...would probably take a little more. Like I said Young is a great backup and a VERY VERY VERY average starter. Teams aren't blind...if he was as good as you believe he would be making some visits and commanding some interest. That he is not.
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Young was a desired Free Agent when we signed him originally from St. Louis. Maybe he just likes it here now :shrug:

Robertson is not better then Young btw. And Young doesn't preclude acquiring any single one of those players you named.
 
morals99 said:
46 tackles off the line of scrimmage in pursuit ??? He's a high motor guy and a LIABILITY against he run. I'd rather two Hollis Thomas with 10 tackles a year than a motor guy who can run down someone 5 yards downfield. In a great defense your tackles alter anything inside to the outside, they collapse the pocket ( NOT PASS RUSHING ) They close the pocket from the inside out and cause QB's to get outside and make mistakes. This isn't Madden football where stats get you in the Pro Bowl. The Jacksonville Jaguars have their entire defense built around two mammoths like this. That is what teams want. Tackle stats at the DT position are meaningless. The best ones don't have the best stats, and I don't have to look it up to know that. The best DT's make their DE's and linebackers shine.
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We have tried that before. Remember the "Lunch Bunch?" That didn't work out at all. Our D was much better with Hand as a NT and Glover as a 3-tech. Last season with Young and Thomas our run D was the best it's been in years.
 
livefromDC said:
He has a great heart, but I don't see him as an every down option. If our line returns as is, which I doubt I point to this move as the same problem we had last off season with the LBs. Because it wasn't a glaring problem last off season, management thought we could get away with minimal additions. Clearly an overhaul (minus Fugita) was in order via Free agency and the draft. I didn't happen. I think it would be a huge disservice to look past the issues on the DL interior.

Young is decent on passing downs and mediocre on runs. He's a year older as is Thomas. The age of our line has to be addressed. I guess will take aim at that during the draft, but we can't wait until the seventh.
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The thing is that there weren't really any better options available in free agency. Young is a "nice" DT. He's solid against the run and a good pass rusher. Honestly, our run defense was pretty good last year and it should only get better with Vilma at MLB. The real problem at DT was a lack of interior pass rush. And that in large part was due to Young being injured/sick. Adding Young back into the rotation is a good thing and it does not stop us from finding an upgrade if one comes open in the draft or free agency.

Singing Simoneau and Young is all about filling all the holes as well as you can before the draft so that you can take BPA in the draft. We now don't have huge holes at DT and MLB so we are not forced to reach for a player at one of those positions. Certainly we would like an upgrade at DT, and we still might get one, but if we can't Young is a good, solid NFL starter. Simoneau on the other hand is valuable as a backup. He can backup all 3 positions and has lots of experience in the NFL and specifically in our system. He can slide right in if someone is injured for a few plays, a few weeks or a season. Will he be good or great taking that position, obviously not, but he would be a steady replacement that would stop you from having a huge hole in the lineup because you gambled that you could draft a guy to provide that depth, but he couldn't learn the playbook or it turned out he just couldn't play at this level.

The next step is to fill the holes at CB and TE so we can really go BPA in the draft.
 
morals99 said:
46 tackles off the line of scrimmage in pursuit ??? He's a high motor guy and a LIABILITY against he run. I'd rather two Hollis Thomas with 10 tackles a year than a motor guy who can run down someone 5 yards downfield. In a great defense your tackles alter anything inside to the outside, they collapse the pocket ( NOT PASS RUSHING ) They close the pocket from the inside out and cause QB's to get outside and make mistakes. This isn't Madden football where stats get you in the Pro Bowl. The Jacksonville Jaguars have their entire defense built around two mammoths like this. That is what teams want. Tackle stats at the DT position are meaningless. The best ones don't have the best stats, and I don't have to look it up to know that. The best DT's make their DE's and linebackers shine.
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Are you kidding? You have to have a DT who is capable of rushing the passer or the QB will simply step up into the pocket everytime. You reference the Jaguars; Stroud is a monster at collapsing the pocket, and they are actually getting rid of the guy anyway. Thomas is good against the run, but hes slow, and doesn't have the moves to be an effective pass rush. Hes also old as dirt. DT's don't have to be huge to be effective at the position. Ellis nor Dorsey are monsters, yet both are considered the top DT prospects this year. Ellis is only 295 pounds. The trend is more and more towards atheletic DT's who can get around a Center or Guard instead of just locking up with him. Not to mention Young is 6;2" and 300 pounds. He isn't undersized.

And your comment about tackles for a DT being a bad thing is totally untrue. All the top DT's average 40-60 tackles a year. Thomas had 50 this year, John Henderson 40, Pat Williams 62, Kevin Williams 38, Fred Robbins 42, Corey Williams 35 in 9 games started, I could keep going.

You need one big body, and one good pass rushing DT. Young gives us that ability.
 
Young and Simoneau were good resigning simply because we plan to upgrade those spots anyway (see Vilma) I dont mind having them back now that I know were not settling on them...Young is a solid DT, he is solid against the run, leaves something to be desired as a pass rusher (06 his 5.5 sacks are scewed, he got 3 in one game) but with Vilma over Simoneau and possibly Stroud, Robertson or Rookie DT teamed with Young...can you really argue the depth? we may lose something to Simoneau coming in for Vilma, but atleast we know the Defense will keep going.
 
The fact is you have to have a solid rotation. You can't have probowlers at every single DT position. Young gives you the pass rusher you need on 3rd downs, and he gives you a solid guy against the run to rotate on 1st and 2nd down to keep the defense fresh. DT's are very expensive and his contract was not very much at all. Hes a good DT. Hes not all-world but not everyone can be. Thomas is old and we don't even know how much longer he'll last. Keeping Young was smart from all angles.
 
The thing to keep in mind about Young is, and i'm ballparking here, but we only have about 10 - 11 million in cap space tied up in Brian Young, Hollis Thomas, Antwan Lake, and Kendrick Clancy collectively.

While this probably precludes us from bringing in a mega-contract like Haynesworth we can certainly accomodate another $4 - $5 million dollar type cap number, like Stroud, Robertson, or Rodgers, if we so chose.
 
BoNcHiE said:
Are you kidding? You have to have a DT who is capable of rushing the passer or the QB will simply step up into the pocket everytime. You reference the Jaguars; Stroud is a monster at collapsing the pocket, and they are actually getting rid of the guy anyway. Thomas is good against the run, but hes slow, and doesn't have the moves to be an effective pass rush. Hes also old as dirt. DT's don't have to be huge to be effective at the position. Ellis nor Dorsey are monsters, yet both are considered the top DT prospects this year. Ellis is only 295 pounds. The trend is more and more towards atheletic DT's who can get around a Center or Guard instead of just locking up with him. Not to mention Young is 6;2" and 300 pounds. He isn't undersized.

And your comment about tackles for a DT being a bad thing is totally untrue. All the top DT's average 40-60 tackles a year. Thomas had 50 this year, John Henderson 40, Pat Williams 62, Kevin Williams 38, Fred Robbins 42, Corey Williams 35 in 9 games started, I could keep going.

You need one big body, and one good pass rushing DT. Young gives us that ability.
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Can you read ??? I said exactly what you said about collapsing the pocket, it's not about your size it's about how you play. Collpasing the pocket is not pass rushing, it's exactly what it states...your are still keeping your lane assignments.

Lets get real why don't we. According to Scouts inc. The top 3 DT's are Tommy Harris, Casey Hampton, and John Henderson.

Tommy Harris = 31 tackles in 16 games
Casey Hampton = 33 tackles in 15 games
John Henderson = 38 tackles in 16 games

By your tackle stat Bryan Young is better than all three? Why are those guys considered so good but lack in tackles? Well because they draw doubles, and teams RUN AWAY from them. Young doesn't draw doubles, he may get doubled on certain plays, but plays aren't redesigned to shut him down.

Arguing your point is pointless and I could go on all day. Tackling stats are pointless for DT's and I just proved it.
 
morals99 said:
Can you read ??? I said exactly what you said about collapsing the pocket, it's not about your size it's about how you play. Collpasing the pocket is not pass rushing, it's exactly what it states...your are still keeping your lane assignments.

Lets get real why don't we. According to Scouts inc. The top 3 DT's are Tommy Harris, Casey Hampton, and John Henderson.

Tommy Harris = 31 tackles in 16 games
Casey Hampton = 33 tackles in 15 games
John Henderson = 38 tackles in 16 games

By your tackle stat Bryan Young is better than all three? Why are those guys considered so good but lack in tackles? Well because they draw doubles, and teams RUN AWAY from them. Young doesn't draw doubles, he may get doubled on certain plays, but plays aren't redesigned to shut him down.

Arguing your point is pointless and I could go on all day. Tackling stats are pointless for DT's and I just proved it.
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Casey Hampton, doesn't he play in a 3-4? If so, he is completely useless in this discussion. Brian Young isn't a space eater and doesn't draw double teams, why? Because that's Hollis' job. Young is the faster DT who can go and make plays while Hollis makes room for him. IIRC, Tommie Harris is a space eater, so again the comparison isn't apt. You know why those 3 have very few tackles? Because they are doing their job while a Brian Young-type is doing his: making tackles. You're comparing two different roles at the same position.
 
Simoneau deal is only 3 yrs 4.9 million with a 1.4 million signing bonus, this is definitely a backup salary. Obviously the Saints didn't resigned him to be the starter.
 

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