Saints sign WR James Washington to one year deal (released on August 15) (2 Viewers)

[EGLSShin]

Saints fans always getting hyped over the most bargin bin signings. The WR core is still 3 guys, Thomas has to prove he can stay healthy, Shaheed has to prove he can take the next step with the increased snaps he's going to very obviously be given. Olave has to prove he can do it once again. Every one else is a prove it to me guy that anything extra is lagniappe. No steep expectations on the other guys, you hope they're contributors/make the final roster.

 

[JackDiesel]

Saints fans always getting hyped over the most bargin bin signings. The WR core is still 3 guys, Thomas has to prove he can stay healthy, Shaheed has to prove he can take the next step with the increased snaps he's going to very obviously be given. Olave has to prove he can do it once again. Every one else is a prove it to me guy that anything extra is lagniappe. No steep expectations on the other guys, you hope they're contributors/make the final roster.

How is that any different than pretty much every position group on our team or the NFL for that matter?

CB - Lattimore has to prove he can stay healthy, Taylor has to prove he can take the next step, Adebo has to recover from his sophomore slump. Roby has to prove he's not a JAG.

DE - Jordan has to prove he's not losing a step against father time, Granderson has to prove he can take the next step with more playing time, Turner has to prove he's not a bust, Foskey has to prove he can play in the NFL, Kpass has to prove he's not a JAG.

I could go on and on. There's always unknowns, that's what makes it fun. Loomis has done an excellent job at bringing in talent instead of just resting and he's doing it with low risk, high reward prospects. Washington fits that definition to a tee. He's produced, got stuck in a bad QB situation, then traded and had a foot injury. Now we're getting him cheap with a QB that can maximize his potential.

 

[cygnus_ltb]

Who has a better stable in your opinion?

Bengals

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Bengals

After Chase and Higgins, which Bengals WRs and TEs are you taking over Thomas, Perry, Edwards, TQS, Washington, Johnson, and Moreau?

Michael Thomas or Tyler Boyd?
Bryan Edwards or Stanley Morgan?
TQS or Trent Taylor?

Juwan Johnson or Irv Smith Jr?
Foster Moreau or Drew Sample?

All 5 have been less productive than the other during last season, last 2 seasons and in their careers

 

[rsmith2783]

we have 1 Pro Bowler at WR who hasn't played a full season since 2019, no TEs that really will move the needle besides Saints fans high on their potential, Chris Olave, another potential guy in Shaheed, and Kamara. Us signing James Washington is the reason why you just said we have the best pass catchers and he didn't even play last season!

Guys, I'm high on the potential of some of our guys too, but good lord are we bias acting like this core is the best group of pass catchers in the NFL.

And you can't even say the "I'm not just counting the top guys, I'm counting everyone". When a team has two top guys like Chase and Higgins, that is substantially a huge enough talent gap to counter the "depth" a team may have. And again, our depth isn't even that proven.

Peak fan optimism whether yall want to admit it or not lol

Right now we're approaching what I like to call "dead air", it's the time between Mini Camp & Training Camp. There's no news, videos or anything to report, so we as fans our minds runs wild, so we tend to build up these false expectations and think that every FA, Draft Pick & UDFA will have a huge impact.
The media tends to pumps this sunshine as well.

Olave & Shaheed did well for us last year. Mind you, opposing DCs will now have film on these guys, so I wouldn't go out and expect them to easily duplicate what they did last year. Also in the past we had the creative ability of SP. Given that we still have the genius of PC, I'm waiting to see how things play out.

But please stop blowing up every single move that is made. We go through this almost every year, heck I think we did it last year as well.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Right now we're approaching what I like to call "dead air", it's the time between Mini Camp & Training Camp. There's no news, videos or anything to report, so we as fans our minds runs wild, so we tend to build up these false expectations and think that every FA, Draft Pick & UDFA will have a huge impact.
The media tends to pumps this sunshine as well.

Olave & Shaheed did well for us last year. Mind you, opposing DCs will now have film on these guys, so I wouldn't go out and expect them to easily duplicate what they did last year. Also in the past we had the creative ability of SP. Given that we still have the genius of PC, I'm waiting to see how things play out.

But please stop blowing up every single move that is made. We go through this almost every year, heck I think we did it last year as well.

It’s obvious Olave and Shaheed are young and on the verge of taking a leap. At this current moment, Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins, Brown/Smith are clearly better based on proven production. While Olave and Shaheed are capable of producing the same on rookie contract salaries.

The starting 2 WRs are a tandem, not a stable or depth. After teams top 2 tandems is where the terms Depth and Stable come in. Regardless of how much the uncertainties and hypotheticals are pointed out, by the numbers the Saints factually have more productive and talented reserve WRs than a lot of other teams.

No one’s calling them starters. They’re simply better reserve WRs. Teams like the Bengals, Dolphins and Eagles literally have 3rd-6th WRs and TEs who have been less productive than our current projected 3rd-6th WRs and top 2 TEs last season or seasons before. That’s the reason why they don’t have better Stables.

It’s not hype or blowing up a move to point out who’s obviously better based on production and talent. Some rather insert negativity and lack of confidence to avoid realizing your teams’ “fliers” are better than other teams’ unproductive 3rd-5th WRs who just play ST and holding a roster spot on those teams.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

It’s obvious Olave and Shaheed are young and on the verge of taking a leap. At this current moment, Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins, Brown/Smith are clearly better based on proven production. While Olave and Shaheed are capable of producing the same on rookie contract salaries.

The starting 2 WRs are a tandem, not a stable or depth. After teams top 2 tandems is where the terms Depth and Stable come in. Regardless of how much the uncertainties and hypotheticals are pointed out, by the numbers the Saints factually have more productive and talented reserve WRs than a lot of other teams.

No one’s calling them starters. They’re simply better reserve WRs. Teams like the Bengals, Dolphins and Eagles literally have 3rd-6th WRs and TEs who have been less productive than our current projected 3rd-6th WRs and top 2 TEs last season or seasons before. That’s the reason why they don’t have better Stables.

It’s not hype or blowing up a move to point out who’s obviously better based on production and talent. Some rather insert negativity and lack of confidence to avoid realizing your teams’ “fliers” are better than other teams’ unproductive 3rd-5th WRs who just play ST and holding a roster spot on those teams.

Do you think that fans of the rest of the NFL see Shaheed as a sure fire #2? He averaged about 2 catches for 40 yards a game last year as an UFA. I really like his potential, but not a slam dunk. Also, if you are rating Perry so high, why not other team's draft choices (i.e. Iosivas with the Bengals, Higgins with Dolphins). Let's get through training camp before trying to rank them.

 

[DavidM]

[...] so we as fans our minds runs wild, so we tend to build up these false expectations and think that every FA, Draft Pick & UDFA will have a huge impact.
The media tends to pumps this sunshine as well.

[...]

But please stop blowing up every single move that is made. We go through this almost every year, heck I think we did it last year as well.

I disagree with this mindset. Sports are supposed to be a distraction from the more serious parts of life. It's entertainment. I think one of the worst things about fan sites are the "realists" always at the ready to tamp down enthusiasm. Oh no, some people are excited and optimistic, let's rally together and stop this before it gets out of hand.

I don't expect that Washington will be a breakout player here but could he be a solid addition to round out the receiving group? Quite possibly. If fans want to see the positive in that - cool. And if some fans want to get really hopeful about a player, the receivers, the team, or whatever else - that's great, too. If others want to take a more wait-and-see approach, I relate to that. Difference of opinions can make for interesting discussion. But to tell fans to "stop blowing up every single move" seems needlessly dour. I can appreciate taking a measured approach about things but that doesn't have to come in the form of being the glum resistance to other people's hopeful observations.

I most appreciate the reasoned takes but, as a fan, if I'm having to choose between the "sunshine pumpers" and the "gloomy realists", open the windows and let those rays pour in.

 

[DavidM]

Do you think that fans of the rest of the NFL see Shaheed as a sure fire #2? He averaged about 2 catches for 40 yards a game last year as an UFA. I really like his potential, but not a slam dunk. Also, if you are rating Perry so high, why not other team's draft choices (i.e. Iosivas with the Bengals, Higgins with Dolphins). Let's get through training camp before trying to rank them.

Yeah, I agree. I like the potential of this group, but there's a lot left that has to be proven.

Still, the overhaul of this unit from what Payton left the team looks really promising and I like the effort of the front office and coaching staff to get better at the position - maybe a lot better.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Yeah, I agree. I like the potential of this group, but there's a lot left that has to be proven.

Still, the overhaul of this unit from what Payton left the team looks really promising and I like the effort of the front office and coaching staff to get better at the position - maybe a lot better.

Definitely. I really like the signings and think they are low risk signings for relatively young players.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Do you think that fans of the rest of the NFL see Shaheed as a sure fire #2? He averaged about 2 catches for 40 yards a game last year as an UFA. I really like his potential, but not a slam dunk. Also, if you are rating Perry so high, why not other team's draft choices (i.e. Iosivas with the Bengals, Higgins with Dolphins). Let's get through training camp before trying to rank them.

I never stated Shaheed is better than other #2s or if other fans see him as a 2. I see him as our #2 because it’s highly likely MT will deal with lower body injuries throughout the season to the point where Shaheed’s #s will finish 2nd in receiving.

The discussion wasn’t about ranking starting WRs. Other teams’ duos are better based on proven #s. It was about a better stable, which is a better collection of reserve pass catchers great at their roles. That can be proven by comparing our projected WR3-WR6’s numbers and TEs to other teams’. I don’t know why that was taken as calling them all pros.

 

[Surgeon]

After Chase and Higgins, which Bengals WRs and TEs are you taking over Thomas, Perry, Edwards, TQS, Washington, Johnson, and Moreau?

Michael Thomas or Tyler Boyd?
Bryan Edwards or Stanley Morgan?
TQS or Trent Taylor?

Juwan Johnson or Irv Smith Jr?
Foster Moreau or Drew Sample?

All 5 have been less productive than the other during last season, last 2 seasons and in their careers

This is a really bad take. All you have done here is list the name our WR and TE group with this optimism that they are better than other teams. Some of whom haven't even played a single game in the NFL, let alone for the Saints.

Michael Thomas or Tyler Boyd? - Boyd had 5 touchdown last year and just shy of 800 yards as a third string receiver in an offence themed around Higgins, Mixon and Chase. He also similar stats in 2021 and 2020. I think a lot of teams actually would take Boyd considering MT can not stay healthy. Until he proves he can get back on the field and actually stay there, I think I would take Boyd. He would actually probably be our number 2 WR here given the likelihood of MT being unhealthy and I am not being the hype of S

Bryan Edwards or Stanley Morgan? - Bryan Edwards has 4 touchdowns in a 3 year career. He has 3 catches last season. Not saying he isn't better than Stanley Morgan, but is that exactly hard over someone who never even sees the field for the Bengals? They do not need him too.

Foster Moreau had his best season in 2019, with 5 touchdowns, and a total of 174 yards. Since then, he has averaged 311 yards a season with 2.3 touchdowns and 48 receptions. I am not sure why there is hype around him.

Perry hasn't even played a single down in the NFL and you've included him in the list. Maybe he dropped for a reason? Who knows. But for now, there's no evidence to his contribution for the Saints in the NFL. I do not even have the energy to carry on but whilst JJ had an improved season last season, he still needs to take it to another level. Taysom Smith isn't a pass catcher. TQS should have been off the roster years ago.

The fact of the matter is, what matters most is WR1-WR3 and TE1-TE2 and I am sorry but the 49ers, Dolphins, Bengals, Bills, Eagles and probably a few more have a better and more proven staple of pass catchers in the NFL in those depth chart positions Those are the guys who are taking the majority of the snaps, and some of those teams WR1-3 and TE1 are so good that it doesn't matter about anyone else. I'd choose the Bengals WR group all day long and wouldn't care if Kermit the Frog was WR5. You are comparing WR's who will not see a lot of the field along with 2nd string and 3rd string Tight Ends. I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself but hey, we will see.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

This is a really bad take. All you have done here is list the name our WR and TE group with this optimism that they are better than other teams. Some of whom haven't even played a single game in the NFL, let alone for the Saints.

Michael Thomas or Tyler Boyd? - Boyd had 5 touchdown last year and just shy of 800 yards as a third string receiver in an offence themed around Higgins, Mixon and Chase. He also similar stats in 2021 and 2020. I think a lot of teams actually would take Boyd considering MT can not stay healthy. Until he proves he can get back on the field and actually stay there, I think I would take Boyd. He would actually probably be our number 2 WR here given the likelihood of MT being unhealthy and I am not being the hype of S

Bryan Edwards or Stanley Morgan? - Bryan Edwards has 4 touchdowns in a 3 year career. He has 3 catches last season. Not saying he isn't better than Stanley Morgan, but is that exactly hard over someone who never even sees the field for the Bengals? They do not need him too.

Perry hasn't even played a single down in the NFL and you've included him in the list. Maybe he dropped for a reason? Who knows. But for now, there's no evidence to his contribution for the Saints in the NFL. I do not even have the energy to carry on but whilst JJ had an improved season last season, he still needs to take it to another level. Taysom Smith isn't a pass catcher. TQS should have been off the roster years ago.

I am sorry but the 49ers, Dolphins, Bengals, Bills, Eagles and probably a few more have a better and more proven staple of pass catchers in the NFL. I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself but hey, we will see.

All you’re doing is lessening Edwards and TQS while avoiding their numbers compared to other teams’ bottom receivers. It’s significantly incomparable.

Boyd has Thomas on production over the last 2 years. League perception still matters like some mention. Many would still take MT because of the seasons he produced at the highest level.

Juwan and Foster outperformed Irv Smith and Sample last season. Stanley Morgan and Trent Taylor are under 100 yard season receivers. That’s the point of how unproductive other teams’ overall stables are. But all of these holes and uncertainties in our more productive reserve receivers has to be pointed out.

 

[LAhotsauce]

I agree, we do not have a stable of proven players at tightend or wide receiver. Outside of New Orleans no one would put our group of tightends or receivers in their top ten let alone number 1.

And in May of 2009 nobody would put the entire Saints team in the top 15. ESPN had them around 19th or 20th?

Nobody outside new orleans would ever rank the Saints high at anything unless they were 13-3 the year before. So some some consensus on reddit is pretty worthless.

 

[sfidc3]

we have 1 Pro Bowler at WR who hasn't played a full season since 2019, no TEs that really will move the needle besides Saints fans high on their potential, Chris Olave, another potential guy in Shaheed, and Kamara. Us signing James Washington is the reason why you just said we have the best pass catchers and he didn't even play last season!

Guys, I'm high on the potential of some of our guys too, but good lord are we bias acting like this core is the best group of pass catchers in the NFL.

And you can't even say the "I'm not just counting the top guys, I'm counting everyone". When a team has two top guys like Chase and Higgins, that is substantially a huge enough talent gap to counter the "depth" a team may have. And again, our depth isn't even that proven.

Peak fan optimism whether yall want to admit it or not lol

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, if the Saints WR corp CAN STAY HEALTHY I would say it has the potential to be one of the league's best.....On paper is just on paper....they aren't "the best stable of pass catchers" until they prove they are.....