Sean Payton is showing how fast you can turn teams around (8 Viewers)

[DavidM]

If memory serves, Lutz was dealing with some injuries the last few years here......

Even so, Lutz isn’t a great example for the point being made. And honestly, if Lutz really said he needs a particular kind of coaching to excel at this point in his career, it’s just as well he’s in Denver.

 

[Treybad]

Got those Broncos in the middle of the pack on the outside of the playoffs looking in.... sound familiar??

 

[sfidc3]

Even so, Lutz isn’t a great example for the point being made. And honestly, if Lutz had said he needs a particular kind of coaching to excel at this point in his career, it’s just as well he’s in Denver.

He's 29 of 32 this year and perfect on all EPs.....The only year he was below 84% made was his last year here as he was struggling with injuries.....

I mean, he's been really good most of his career....and he's having a great year this year......

 

[DavidM]

He's 29 of 32 this year and perfect on all EPs.....The only year he was below 84% made was his last year here as he was struggling with injuries.....

I mean, he's been really good most of his career....and he's having a great year this year......

I think you’re taking this as me just bashing Lutz. I’m disagreeing about a point another poster made about his successes and struggles related to harsh coaching. It’s not a compelling point to me.

As it is, Grupe has kicked at about the same level as Lutz did in 2020 (slightly better this season). Lutz then missed all of 2021 on IR and then had a bad year in 2022. It was an extended period of Lutz not being reliable. Making a change made sense, at the time, but I don’t have confidence that Grupe is a long term answer, either.

 

[St. Widge]

Got those Broncos in the middle of the pack on the outside of the playoffs looking in.... sound familiar??

Sounds like Dennis Allen?

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Sounds like Dennis Allen?

I know that was tongue in cheek but lets make sure that everyone is aware that xCSP is indeed 9-6 in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL (with a rookie QB) which has a 3(4?) superbowl winning QB oooooorrrrrrrrrr....... perennially ~4-7 against the weakest division in the NFL where the best opposing starting QB was Kirk Cousins at the start of the season?

Not anything like DA. But hey, at least he's really somebody else's problem now.

 

[Jd101]

Two different cap situations correct? One he helped screw up if so. It's a lot easier when you're not in cap hell.

Correct

 

[Jd101]

The cap situation is Loomis and Co. Why don’t you post all the cap moves that Loomis has made the past three years? Because those show that the same strategy that was deployed when Payton was here is the same strategy used today.

Loomis was in win now mode when Brees was QB and Loomis is still in win now mode four years later. That is why the cap is a mess and the use of draft picks have been questionable.

Open your eyes and also see that Loomis clearly believes in sign a FA QB and draft one late on hopes of finding your franchise QB. Payton leaves and drafts a first round QB immediately in his new situation. I believe people think that Payton had more control than what they believe. And I believe he left because he was sick of the way the team was managed and had been trying to leave since Tom Benson died as he was probably the moderator between Loomis and Payton.

Loomis does what a gm should. He gives his head coach what he says he needs to win.

 

[St. Widge]

I know that was tongue in cheek but lets make sure that everyone is aware that xCSP is indeed 9-6 in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL (with a rookie QB) which has a 3(4?) superbowl winning QB oooooorrrrrrrrrr....... perennially ~4-7 against the weakest division in the NFL where the best opposing starting QB was Kirk Cousins at the start of the season?

Not anything like DA. But hey, at least he's really somebody else's problem now.

It was indeed tongue in cheek. I get what Payton did getting the Broncos to 9-6 is a great job and what Allen did was underachieve with a solid roster in a weak division which he then let get old without keeping or bringing enough young talent. And he finished it off with a 7 game losing streak.

 

[sfidc3]

I think you’re taking this as me just bashing Lutz. I’m disagreeing about a point another poster made about his successes and struggles related to harsh coaching. It’s not a compelling point to me.

As it is, Grupe has kicked at about the same level as Lutz did in 2020 (slightly better this season). Lutz then missed all of 2021 on IR and then had a bad year in 2022. It was an extended period of Lutz not being reliable. Making a change made sense, at the time, but I don’t have confidence that Grupe is a long term answer, either.

I mean, he obviously thinks CSP helped him become a better kicker, there's nothing wrong with that.....

I thought it was a huge risk at the time to go with Grupe but it has worked out so far (one of the very few things that did during the DA era)....he got off to a shaky start but has improved since his 1st year, much like Lutz.....

 

[Ti Rider]

Let me preface this by saying - Sean Payton is the greatest coach in New Orleans Saints history. He brought us a Super Bowl win. I will always be thankful for his time here.

But -

Anyone else find it extremely troublesome that Payton chose to leave the Saints in complete chaos for Denver (a team supposedly handicapped by Russell Wilson’s contract)? Payton also fully endorsed Dennis Allen knowing full well his history and limitations. Basically Payton nuked the Saints on his way out the door. Mickey Loomis has the majority of responsible for the Saints current predicament but Sean Payton bares the rest then bailed instead of helping to fix things. Not exactly heroic……

 

[DavidM]

I mean, he obviously thinks CSP helped him become a better kicker, there's nothing wrong with that.....

I thought it was a huge risk at the time to go with Grupe but it has worked out so far (one of the very few things that did during the DA era)....he got off to a shaky start but has improved since his 1st year, much like Lutz.....

He wasn’t a “better” kicker in 2020, though - statistically the worst of his then five year career up to that point. Then the next two seasons of being hurt and then being unreliable happened. It was a three season stretch of wondering what we actually had with Lutz anymore. Too bad it didn’t work out differently.

If he benefits directly from kicking for Payton, then he’s where he needs to be.

 

[SweetT]

It’s not like SP wasn’t part of our situation

He was also part of our turnaround, right after Katrina. Which led us to our greatest era in our history. For all of SP’s faults, we could most definitely use another HC like him

 

[los226]

Loomis does what a gm should. He gives his head coach what he says he needs to win.

I’m not so sure about that. He’s not going to just blindly agree to whatever the coach demands. There is compromise in every business relationship.

 

[No2DC]

Loomis does what a gm should. He gives his head coach what he says he needs to win.

The GM is also supposed to make an objective long-term assessment beyond the coach and quarterback, and Loomis never did that. Sometimes, you have to let a HOF QB walk in the team's best interest (see Green Bay) and draft a QB high. You cannot blindly let the coach drive the bus without considering the team. Loomis failed at that task.