Shooter incident at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas - 19 children and 2 adults dead (3 Viewers)

[Big_L]

I taught Active Shooter Response. We broke it down to just two officers on scene and responding to an incident. Two officers could of taken that punk shooter. That clown had no training and whatnot, but regardless, the officers just stood around and didn't try until they had what I'm guessing they felt was overwhelming force. Eff that stupid School District Chief. If it came to that, I'm turning my radio off and saying I didn't get the memo.

 

[Big_L]

Yeah. What bugged me the most was there were 6 cops right by the doors to 111 and 112 just minutes after the shooting started. Had they breached at that point, they probably could have saved several who spent the last minutes of their life bleeding out and waiting for help that didn't come for over an hour. Just a complete lack of leadership and accountability.

As much as I hate to think about it, more shootings will happen, and I can only hope the lessons learned here will be front and center with other departments when facing that scenario.

10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% and you are dude with no training and can see it. In my opinion it's dereliction of duty and cowardice.

 

[Kegger]

I taught Active Shooter Response. We broke it down to just two officers on scene and responding to an incident. Two officers could of taken that punk shooter. That clown had no training and whatnot, but regardless, the officers just stood around and didn't try until they had what I'm guessing they felt was overwhelming force. Eff that stupid School District Chief. If it came to that, I'm turning my radio off and saying I didn't get the memo.

Didn't they not have the key for the room or something? Or am I misremembering the details...

 

[Big_L]

Didn't they not have the key for the room or something? Or am I misremembering the details...

Blow the door off the hinges with a shotgun . . .

 

[faceman]

Blow the door off the hinges with a shotgun . . .

That's what a well trained response team would have done.

 

[DaveXA]

Didn't they not have the key for the room or something? Or am I misremembering the details...

The needing a key was just an excuse to try and buy time. Except the kids and teachers in those classrooms didn't have that time. With six cops at the doors, they have to initiate a breach as soon as they're in position. They were in that position and retreated instead of breaching. It's exactly the opposite of what they're supposed to be doing.

 

[Kegger]

Blow the door off the hinges with a shotgun . . .

Can't say I've ever tried that, do you need to shoot the deadbolt too? Otherwise seems like you're going to be doing a lot of kicking, assuming the doors swing into the room. Or does the door just slide out after the hinges are blown off (assuming deadbolt has some wiggle)?

 

[Big_L]

Can't say I've ever tried that, do you need to shoot the deadbolt too? Otherwise seems like you're going to be doing a lot of kicking, assuming the doors swing into the room. Or does the door just slide out after the hinges are blown off (assuming deadbolt has some wiggle)?

With all due respect, I am not from Uvalde. The officers that responded are. That school was their homefield. I seriously doubt they held any training there or even did a walk through prior. The hinges/deadbolts/etc, that should of all been taken into account well before this incident happened. Now, from my perspective (and yes I have responded to incidents), you do whatever it takes to save lives. If that means shooting the door 5 times with a shotgun, so be it. I hope this answers your question.

 

[faceman]

Can't say I've ever tried that, do you need to shoot the deadbolt too? Otherwise seems like you're going to be doing a lot of kicking, assuming the doors swing into the room. Or does the door just slide out after the hinges are blown off (assuming deadbolt has some wiggle)?

Doors to school classrooms aren't built like bank vaults. The hinges and deadbolt are not gonna withstand a 12
gauge point blank for very long. Like Big -L said, you do whatever it takes to breach that door.

 

[Kegger]

With all due respect, I am not from Uvalde. The officers that responded are. That school was their homefield. I seriously doubt they held any training there or even did a walk through prior. The hinges/deadbolts/etc, that should of all been taken into account well before this incident happened. Now, from my perspective (and yes I have responded to incidents), you do whatever it takes to save lives. If that means shooting the door 5 times with a shotgun, so be it. I hope this answers your question.

Yeah I'm more just wondering is it possible/how hard is it to blast through a deadbolt on a metal door/frame with a shotgun? FWIW I'm not trying to condone the actions (or lack thereof) of the officers, I'm just curious (should I ever be in the same situation).

 

[Kegger]

Doors to school classrooms aren't built like bank vaults. The hinges and deadbolt are not gonna withstand a 12
gauge point blank for very long. Like Big -L said, you do whatever it takes to breach that door.

Fair enough

 

[Big_L]

Yeah I'm more just wondering is it possible/how hard is it to blast through a deadbolt on a metal door/frame with a shotgun? FWIW I'm not trying to condone the actions (or lack thereof) of the officers, I'm just curious (should I ever be in the same situation).

Bro, if you are ever in that same situation, you act. Our job is to save lives (especially kids). Head to the sound of gunfire and neutralize the threat. I think I still have some powerpoints and training materials, IM me if you're interested.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Bro, if you are ever in that same situation, you act. Our job is to save lives (especially kids). Head to the sound of gunfire and neutralize the threat. I think I still have some powerpoints and training materials, IM me if you're interested.

The other messed up part of this is that these idiots have made life so much harder for other first responders all around the country.

Prior to Uvalde, my response would have been to totally trust that the on-scene responders were trained up to do the right thing. I would have been able to fight off my impulse to rush the school myself for fear of making their job harder. Now? I'm rushing my grandsons' school myself if there is even the hint of hesitation by the responders.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

The other messed up part of this is that these idiots have made life so much harder for other first responders all around the country.

Prior to Uvalde, my response would have been to totally trust that the on-scene responders were trained up to do the right thing. I would have been able to fight off my impulse to rush the school myself for fear of making their job harder. Now? I'm rushing my grandsons' school myself if there is even the hint of hesitation by the responders.

in that scenario, they would have no problem using the correct force to stop you.

 

[Big_L]

The other messed up part of this is that these idiots have made life so much harder for other first responders all around the country.

Prior to Uvalde, my response would have been to totally trust that the on-scene responders were trained up to do the right thing. I would have been able to fight off my impulse to rush the school myself for fear of making their job harder. Now? I'm rushing my grandsons' school myself if there is even the hint of hesitation by the responders.

This response did more harm than Columbine. We "learned" from Columbine and changed our strategy, not waiting for SWAT during an active shooter event. Ulvade, well it's like some places didn't get the memo.