Shooter incident at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas - 19 children and 2 adults dead (1 Viewer)

[HoustonSaint68]

in that scenario, they would have no problem using the correct force to stop you.

If that puts pressure on them to take action themselves, so be it.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah I'm more just wondering is it possible/how hard is it to blast through a deadbolt on a metal door/frame with a shotgun? FWIW I'm not trying to condone the actions (or lack thereof) of the officers, I'm just curious (should I ever be in the same situation).

Whether it's shotguns or any other breaching tool, they're supposed to go in and have the equipment they need to breach the door. It should be something they have with them the second they get in position.

As BigL stated, it seems clear they hadn't done any training at this school, or even any school. And you use what you have to to gain entry and neutralize the threat as quickly as possible.

And to be sure, there are several different types of shotgun shells, and there are some capable of creating enough damage to the door hinges to breach in very short order.

 

[CoolBrees]

I don’t think anything could get the image of first responders running into the North and South Towers. Despite the hellscape and utter chaos. Thise men and women saved thousands of lives at the cost of their own.

Not even these cowards can erase that do me.

They are going to have to live with this the rest of their miserable lives. They are a coward that let babies bleed to death because they were afraid. I hope those babies haunt their dreams.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Bro, if you are ever in that same situation, you act. Our job is to save lives (especially kids). Head to the sound of gunfire and neutralize the threat. I think I still have some powerpoints and training materials, IM me if you're interested.

Big L. I assume this training is not necessarily schools specific. Are there different strategies for office buildings, factories, etc? I know calls are made on a situational case by case, but is the training generally the same? Some instances the victims/hostages are mostly children and other cases they are all adults or does that matter?

 

[Big_L]

Big L. I assume this training is not necessarily schools specific. Are there different strategies for office buildings, factories, etc? I know calls are made on a situational case by case, but is the training generally the same? Some instances the victims/hostages are mostly children and other cases they are all adults or does that matter?

Generally it's the same. However, you would think the ISD police would train at the different campuses to get a feel for each school. Uvlade isn't that big, I'm sure the local PD could take time to train there too. In light of all the school shootings that occur in this country, you would think this would be common place.
The only different strategies that I taught was active shooter vs barricaded suspect.

 

[faceman]

Generally it's the same. However, you would think the ISD police would train at the different campuses to get a feel for each school. Uvlade isn't that big, I'm sure the local PD could take time to train there too. In light of all the school shootings that occur in this country, you would think this would be common place.
The only different strategies that I taught was active shooter vs barricaded suspect.

The active shooter drill is the same everywhere. I'm a civilian employed at Keesler AFB. We have the drill at least
once per year. Our instructor is a retired Chief Petty officer. He said Military and Civilian training are the
same. Run first hide 2nd and fight as a last resort.

 

[saintmdterps]

I guess I really don’t understand how LEO’s don’t go through that door. It’s what they signed up for when they took the vow as a LEO.

When you enlist in the military you accept war as a possibility. When I became a healthcare worker I accepted that something like Covid could occur. So we suffered for 2 1/2 years. I got sick twice, and watched my patients and coworkers die. We didn’t quit because we had a responsibility to each other and the patients.

These things come with the territory, as tough as it may be.

 

[Big_L]

The active shooter drill is the same everywhere. I'm a civilian employed at Keesler AFB. We have the drill at least
once per year. Our instructor is a retired Chief Petty officer. He said Military and Civilian training are the
same. Run first hide 2nd and fight as a last resort.

When I taught civilians Active shooter, I didn't tell them what order they should run, hide, or fight in. Every circumstance is different. I told them to silence their cell phones, lock doors, get as close to the floor as possible. I didn't want someone running when hiding was the best option and vice versa.

 

[Bayouboy]

I guess I really don’t understand how LEO’s don’t go through that door. It’s what they signed up for when they took the vow as a LEO.

When you enlist in the military you accept war as a possibility. When I became a healthcare worker I accepted that something like Covid could occur. So we suffered for 2 1/2 years. I got sick twice, and watched my patients and coworkers die. We didn’t quit because we had a responsibility to each other and the patients.

These things come with the territory, as tough as it may be.

No doubt.....and these guys were in position to act not long after the initial attack. How on earth can anyone in law enforcement stand idle for over an hour is just beyond me. Over 70 minutes!!! Were the kids calling 911 (rooms 111 & 112) asking for help, killed? It's hard to wrap your mind around it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The majority of American teachers think arming themselves with guns would make schools less safe, a newly released survey of educators across the country found.

It's a question floated after every school shooting that gets national attention: Would armed teachers be able to stop a mass shooter in their tracks, possibly saving many lives?

There have been at least 24 shooting incidents on school campuses resulting in injury or death so far in 2023, according to a tracker by Education Week. Last week, the country marked one year since 19 students and two teachers were gunned down at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, marking the deadliest school shooting in the country since the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting nearly a decade prior.

One in five teachers surveyed about school safety by the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation said they feel schools would be safer if teachers were allowed to be armed. The majority, 54%, thought schools would be made less safe if teachers could carry, and another 26% said they didn't think it would make a difference in school safety.

Still, most teachers said active shooters weren't their No. 1 safety concern in the classroom.

Here's what teachers think about safety in schools, according to the survey, conducted between Oct. 25 and Nov. 14, 2022, and released on Wednesday:

The percentage of teachers who said they were strongly opposed to policies allowing teachers to carry guns on campus, 44%, was far higher than the percentage who said they strongly support them, 6%, the survey found.

While about 20% of the 973 teachers of kindergarten through 12th grade surveyed said they thought schools would be safer if they were allowed to carry guns on campus, 19% said they would personally be interested in carrying a gun at school.

That amounts to about 550,000 teachers nationwide who would want to carry on campus, the report authors estimated based on a nationwide teacher population of about 3 million.............

MSN

 

[Optimus Prime]

guess this can go here since the original parkland thread ended up in PDB

wonder if we'll see similar trials for the Uvalde cops
===============================

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — In a prosecution believed to be a national first, a former Florida sheriff's deputy is about to be tried on charges he failed to confront the gunman who murdered 14 students and three staff members at a Parkland high school five years ago.

Jury selection begins Wednesday in the trial of former Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, who remained outside a three-story classroom building at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School during Nikolas Cruz's six-minute attack on Feb. 14, 2018. Opening statements are scheduled for early June, and the trial could last two months.

Peterson, 60, is charged with seven counts of felony child neglect for four students killed and three wounded on the 1200 building's third floor. Peterson arrived at the building with his gun drawn 73 seconds before Cruz reached that floor, but instead of entering, he backed away as gunfire sounded. He has said he didn't know where the shots were coming from.

Peterson is also charged with three counts of misdemeanor culpable negligence for the adults shot on the third floor, including a teacher and an adult student who died. He also faces a perjury charge for allegedly lying to investigators. He could get nearly a century in prison if convicted on the child neglect counts and lose his $104,000 annual pension.

Prosecutors did not charge Peterson in connection with the 11 killed and 13 wounded on the first floor before he arrived at the building. No one was shot on the second floor.

According to the National Association of School Resource Officers, which represents campus police, Peterson is the first U.S. law enforcement officer tried for allegedly failing to act during a school shooting. Texas authorities are investigating the officers who didn't confront the Uvalde gunman who killed 19 elementary students and two teachers last year, but none have been charged.............

MSN

 

[Big_L]

guess this can go here since the original parkland thread ended up in PDB

wonder if we'll see similar trials for the Uvalde cops
===============================

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — In a prosecution believed to be a national first, a former Florida sheriff's deputy is about to be tried on charges he failed to confront the gunman who murdered 14 students and three staff members at a Parkland high school five years ago.

Jury selection begins Wednesday in the trial of former Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, who remained outside a three-story classroom building at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School during Nikolas Cruz's six-minute attack on Feb. 14, 2018. Opening statements are scheduled for early June, and the trial could last two months.

Peterson, 60, is charged with seven counts of felony child neglect for four students killed and three wounded on the 1200 building's third floor. Peterson arrived at the building with his gun drawn 73 seconds before Cruz reached that floor, but instead of entering, he backed away as gunfire sounded. He has said he didn't know where the shots were coming from.

Peterson is also charged with three counts of misdemeanor culpable negligence for the adults shot on the third floor, including a teacher and an adult student who died. He also faces a perjury charge for allegedly lying to investigators. He could get nearly a century in prison if convicted on the child neglect counts and lose his $104,000 annual pension.

Prosecutors did not charge Peterson in connection with the 11 killed and 13 wounded on the first floor before he arrived at the building. No one was shot on the second floor.

According to the National Association of School Resource Officers, which represents campus police, Peterson is the first U.S. law enforcement officer tried for allegedly failing to act during a school shooting. Texas authorities are investigating the officers who didn't confront the Uvalde gunman who killed 19 elementary students and two teachers last year, but none have been charged.............

MSN

I thought the Supreme Court ruled that cops don't have to put their lives on the line for another. If that is the case, I doubt this would hold up.

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone (Published 2005)

Supreme Court rules that police do not have constitutional duty to protect person from harm, even woman who obtained court-issued protective order against violent husband which made arrest mandatory for violation; decision overturns ruling by federal appeals court in Colorado; it had permitted...

www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.

 

[sfidc3]

I thought the Supreme Court ruled that cops don't have to put their lives on the line for another. If that is the case, I doubt this would hold up.

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone (Published 2005)

Supreme Court rules that police do not have constitutional duty to protect person from harm, even woman who obtained court-issued protective order against violent husband which made arrest mandatory for violation; decision overturns ruling by federal appeals court in Colorado; it had permitted...

www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.

Scalia was a real piece of work, I hope he suffered when he died....

 

[Eeyore]

Uvalde school police underwent active shooter training 2 months ago

The course manual says "a first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."

abc7.com

 

[gboudx]

The majority of American teachers think arming themselves with guns would make schools less safe, a newly released survey of educators across the country found.

It's a question floated after every school shooting that gets national attention: Would armed teachers be able to stop a mass shooter in their tracks, possibly saving many lives?

There have been at least 24 shooting incidents on school campuses resulting in injury or death so far in 2023, according to a tracker by Education Week. Last week, the country marked one year since 19 students and two teachers were gunned down at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, marking the deadliest school shooting in the country since the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting nearly a decade prior.

One in five teachers surveyed about school safety by the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation said they feel schools would be safer if teachers were allowed to be armed. The majority, 54%, thought schools would be made less safe if teachers could carry, and another 26% said they didn't think it would make a difference in school safety.

Still, most teachers said active shooters weren't their No. 1 safety concern in the classroom.

Here's what teachers think about safety in schools, according to the survey, conducted between Oct. 25 and Nov. 14, 2022, and released on Wednesday:

The percentage of teachers who said they were strongly opposed to policies allowing teachers to carry guns on campus, 44%, was far higher than the percentage who said they strongly support them, 6%, the survey found.

While about 20% of the 973 teachers of kindergarten through 12th grade surveyed said they thought schools would be safer if they were allowed to carry guns on campus, 19% said they would personally be interested in carrying a gun at school.

That amounts to about 550,000 teachers nationwide who would want to carry on campus, the report authors estimated based on a nationwide teacher population of about 3 million.............

MSN

Maybe I missed it in that article, but the Texas Legislature just passed a bill that will make it mandatory that every public school in Texas has an armed security office on campus. It's just waiting for the governor to sign it. I didn't read the entire bill, so I wonder if the armed security office mandate means someone meeting those qualifications must be on the same campus all day, or if they are allowed to make rounds between other schools? It's common for School Resource Officers to make the rounds to a few campuses during the day.