Should Rattler be our starter in 2025? (8 Viewers)

[DavidM]

Still think that Carr isn't our QB next season. As I said before: If Moore is sold on Carr, he would've said it yesterday in his Press Conference. No need to dance around this question if you want to ride with Carr. If it's 50/50 you always roll with the young guy on a cheap contract.

I think the really interesting take from that interview was Pelissero saying a lot of coaches watched Saints tape because of the coaching vacancy, and he’s heard a lot of good things from them about Rattler, and his potential to be a starter in the NFL.

 

[austrian-saint]

But we're extremely motivated this year. The poll above actually splits 101.8% between Carr and Rattler. Take that politics!

 

[DavidM]

If a coach was inheriting a team with Burrow on the roster, nobody is asking who the starter is going to be. So it’s understandable that Moore, a few days into the job, isn’t going to commit to a player’s role who pretty much everybody already understands isn’t set in stone. Nobody should be surprised by his answer, and trying to spin it as if they didn’t already understand the uncertainty at the position.

 

[StudioSaint]

I think the really interesting take from that interview was Pelissero saying a lot of coaches watched Saints tape because of the coaching vacancies, and he’s heard a lot of good things from them about Rattler, and his potential to be a starter in the NFL.

I take that with a grain of salt because we have no idea who those coaches are and what they actually said. Also, Pelissero's gave us this report:

An anonymous NFC scouting director currently believes that South Carolina quarterback Spencer Rattler is a better prospect than Washington signal-caller Michael Penix Jr. in the 2024 NFL draft.
"I have Spencer higher than Penix," the executive said, via NFL Network's Tom Pelissero.

Not only was Rattler not drafted before Penix, but he wasn't taken until the 5th round. If there was any team as high on Rattler as Pelissero insinuates, then it's unlikely they don't take a flyer on him before the 5th round. Pelissero seems to have gotten enamored with Rattler at the Senior Bowl, because he's been hyping him up ever since then and he always uses anonymous sources to do it.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10117743-nfl-exec-ranks-spencer-rattler-over-michael-penix-jr-in-2024-draft-better-arm

 

[StudioSaint]

He cannot say that he won't ride with Carr. If he said something like this, then Carr would be p**** and rightfully so.

So what? If the Saints are moving on from Carr, why do they care if they piss him off?

Moreover he would have ruined Carr's value for a possible trade. I know he has a no trade clause, but he could wave it.

Carr has already shown with the Raiders that he ain't waiving his no trade clause when he knows he'll be cut. The moment they ask Carr to waive it, he knows they're moving on from him and he's going to force them to cut him, so he can be a free agent.

 

[Geldo]

Saints need to cut 55 million to get under the cap. Does assigning Carr as a post June 1 cut count towards this - or do we have to get under the cap anyway and then the money saved by releasing him only kick in after June 1st?
Can someone explain please.

 

[DavidM]

I take that with a grain of salt because we have no idea who those coaches are and what they actually said. Also, Pelissero's gave us this report:



Not only was Rattler not drafted before Penix, but he wasn't taken until the 5th round. If there was any team as high on Rattler as Pelissero insinuates, then it's unlikely they don't take a flyer on him before the 5th round. Pelissero seems to have gotten enamored with Rattler at the Senior Bowl, because he's been hyping him up ever since then and he always uses anonymous sources to do it.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10117743-nfl-exec-ranks-spencer-rattler-over-michael-penix-jr-in-2024-draft-better-arm

I’m considering his comments along with what I saw. While Rattler struggled with a patchwork team around him, there were positive signs to me. He has all the physical tools. I thought he showed tremendous poise under some challenging conditions, and as he gained experience, thought he seemed to be getting more comfortable, going through progressions and getting the ball out.

That the team went 0-6 isn’t a surprise to me, nor is it necessarily alarming. Burrow was 2-7-1 as a rookie. Brees had a 2-9 season record early in his career. Two points from that: young QBs need time and even the most talented prospects can’t overcome poor teams / coaching.

I’m not making a bold prediction about Rattler. I do think there were some good indications and I’d like to see more.

We have no idea what the future holds for Penix or Rattler. So what?

 

[StudioSaint]

Saints need to cut 55 million to get under the cap. Does assigning Carr as a post June 1 cut count towards this - or do we have to get under the cap anyway and then the money saved by releasing him only kick in after June 1st?
Can someone explain please.

What most have said is that the Saints wouldn't get the cap relief until June 1st. You lose the player as soon as you make the designation, but you don't get any cap relief until June 1st. It that's accurate, the Saints would effectively not have the cap space to sign or re-sign anyone else until June 1st. I don't think players are going to wait around that long on handshake agreements before getting the security of an actual binding contract.

 

[Geldo]

What most have said is that the Saints wouldn't get the cap relief until June 1st. You lose the player as soon as you make the designation, but you don't get any cap relief until June 1st. It that's accurate, the Saints would effectively not have the cap space to sign or re-sign anyone else until June 1st. I don't think players are going to wait around that long on handshake agreements before getting the security of an actual binding contract.

Thank you - I find the cap so confusing - much appreciated!

 

[StudioSaint]

I’m considering his comments along with what I saw. While Rattler struggled with a patchwork team around him, there were positive signs to me. He has all the physical tools. I thought he showed tremendous poise, and as he gained experience, thought he seemed to be getting more comfortable, going through progressions and getting the ball out.

I'm basing it on what I saw as well. Rattler struggled both in college and his starts with the Saints in regards to decision making and ball placement. There were times with the Saints that he had time in the pocket and still struggled with both of those. He didn't really show any improvement in those areas and those are the two most important things for a QB to have consistent success.

The other thing I saw happened after he threw the ball. If a receive didn't catch a ball that was poorly placed and hard to catch, he would get visibly upset with the receiver, not himself, but the receiver. I get the impression that he may not have matured as much as some think he has. College programs and agents teach players how to say all the right things. There's a few yellow flags for me that what Rattler says doesn't line up with what he actually acts.

No Saints coach since Payton has ever talked poorly about any of their QB's in public, yet they have cut a lot of backup QB's through the years and some starters in the last few years. I think people think the Saints have to have a Brees or Mahomes level QB to win the Super Bowl, so they are looking for the next Brees or Mahomes. I think Rattler's similar appearence to Mahommes and mimicry of Mahommes, like the head wrap he wears, has people wishfully seeing potential in Rattler that he hasn't actually shown.

Really strong armed QB's get people excited because people love those deep passes, but it's easier to win with smart accurate short to medium passinggame with an unreliable deep game, than it is to win with a reliable deep game, but unwise and innacurate short to medium passing game.

That the team went 0-6 isn’t a surprise to me, nor is it necessarily alarming.

The record doesn't mean anything to me. Rattler's play wasn't alarming, but it also didn't inspire confidence for me that he'll be anything better than average. I think he's fools gold, which isn't terrible, it just ain't gold.

I’m not making a bold prediction about Rattler. I do think there were some good indications and I’d like to see more.

I'm not making any bold predictions either. I thought Brooks was going work out a lot better than he did and was a little disappointed that Payton didn't give him a try, but I didn't dwell on it, even before Brees showed who he was.

We have no idea what the future holds for Penix or Rattler. So what?

Pelisserios Rattler and Penix draft report was not about which is better. It's about how things unfolded did not line up with Pelisserio's anonymous sources. Eisen was saying that surely Moore looked at tape of Carr, so he has an opinion on Carr and Pelisserio changed the focus to how the coach candidates were really high on Rattler, implying that they weren't high on Carr.

Pelisserio has been hyping Rattler for awhile now, so I don't take his word on anything he says anyonymous sources have told him about Rattler. We don't know that coaches weren't even higher on Carr than Rattler, because Pelisserio switched the converation to Rattler. He constantly does that. Guess who started the story that the Saints executives really like Rattler, again without naming any sources. Reporters talk about how much the Saints love Rattler, but they shy away from asking the Saints about Rattler in press conferences. They did it yesterday.

 

[StudioSaint]

Thank you - I find the cap so confusing - much appreciated!

You're welcome, but keep in mind I'm only repeatimng second or third hand information, so I could be off the mark some.

 

[DavidM]

I'm basing it on what I saw as well. Rattler struggled both in college and his starts with the Saints in regards to decision making and ball placement. There were times with the Saints that he had time in the pocket and still struggled with both of those. He didn't really show any improvement in those areas and those are the two most important things for a QB to have consistent success.

The other thing I saw happened after he threw the ball. If a receive didn't catch a ball that was poorly placed and hard to catch, he would get visibly upset with the receiver, not himself, but the receiver. I get the impression that he may not have matured as much as some think he has. College programs and agents teach players how to say all the right things. There's a few yellow flags for me that what Rattler says doesn't line up with what he actually acts.

No Saints coach since Payton has ever talked poorly about any of their QB's in public, yet they have cut a lot of backup QB's through the years and some starters in the last few years. I think people think the Saints have to have a Brees or Mahomes level QB to win the Super Bowl, so they are looking for the next Brees or Mahomes. I think Rattler's similar appearence to Mahommes and mimicry of Mahommes, like the head wrap he wears, has people wishfully seeing potential in Rattler that he hasn't actually shown.

Really strong armed QB's get people excited because people love those deep passes, but it's easier to win with smart accurate short to medium passinggame with an unreliable deep game, than it is to win with a reliable deep game, but unwise and innacurate short to medium passing game.


The record doesn't mean anything to me. Rattler's play wasn't alarming, but it also didn't inspire confidence for me that he'll be anything better than average. I think he's fools gold, which isn't terrible, it just ain't gold.


I'm not making any bold predictions either. I thought Brooks was going work out a lot better than he did and was a little disappointed that Payton didn't give him a try, but I didn't dwell on it, even before Brees showed who he was.


Pelisserios Rattler and Penix draft report was not about which is better. It's about how things unfolded did not line up with Pelisserio's anonymous sources. Eisen was saying that surely Moore looked at tape of Carr, so he has an opinion on Carr and Pelisserio changed the focus to how the coach candidates were really high on Rattler, implying that they weren't high on Carr.

Pelisserio has been hyping Rattler for awhile now, so I don't take his word on anything he says anyonymous sources have told him about Rattler. We don't know that coaches weren't even higher on Carr than Rattler, because Pelisserio switched the converation to Rattler. He constantly does that. Guess who started the story that the Saints executives really like Rattler, again without naming any sources. Reporters talk about how much the Saints love Rattler, but they shy away from asking the Saints about Rattler in press conferences. They did it yesterday.

I hope you're not implying that I see something in Rattler because "he looks like Mahomes."

When performances aren't exceptional, it's understandable that people can come away with different perceptions. Time will tell. I'm familiar with reporting that Rattler's Saints teammates like him and think highly of him. I'm not worried that he's selfish or throwing players under the bus here.

Rattler had a strong season at Oklahoma...then had some struggles in his second year as the starter. Wasn't statistically terrible but clearly it wasn't going well. Both he and the eventual #1 overall pick bailed on the program and sought opportunities elsewhere. Williams chose the better location while Rattler followed a coach to South Carolina. He had some success at a program that rarely is relevant, and it's been reported on that the SC OL wasn't great and he gained experience playing under a lot of pressure. I get the impression that is part of what prepared him to get opportunities over Haener.

It will all get settled on the field and I'm not trying to convince anybody to see what I do. I trust that Moore is somebody who can get the best out of his quarterbacks and we will find out if that is enough to elevate Rattler, or anybody else, to the level of capable starter.

 

[StudioSaint]

I hope you're not implying that I see something in Rattler because "he looks like Mahomes."

I'm not implying that you are. Associations like that do happen. We see someone who psychically reminds of us someone else and we start to project the familiar person's attributes onto the person that reminds us of them. It does seem like that is part of why some people like Rattler so much.

I understand your opinions and they are reasonably based. I won't be mad if the Saints give him a go and will be happily entertained if Rattler turns out to be a great QB for the Saints.

It will all get settled on the field and I'm not trying to convince anybody to see what I do.

I know that about you. I'm not either. I'm just sharing what I think.

I trust that Moore is somebody who can get the best out of his quarterbacks and we will find out if that is enough to elevate Rattler, or anybody else, to the level of capable starter.

I think the same about Moore. I also think he can get the best out QB's with different skill sets. I don't think he's limited to just a certain style of QB and that's very encouraging. It would give them the whole range of QB's to tap into it which would give them a competitive edge. I'm a big supproter of maximum flexibility.

 

[UFCSaint]

OP is looking for an honest open discussion... and 2 people falcon him

 

[bobad]

I voted YES.

My ideal scenario is to draft Milroe (whom I think will eventually be the best QB in this draft), cut Carr and retire Taysom. Start Rattler and let Milroe develop in Taysom's role. If Rattler gets better, keep playing him.