Terrance Copper?...is it the fumble why yall hate him so much? (1 Viewer)

meily

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6 Catches 92yrds and 1td.......he was a more than capable #2 against Pitt, he fumbled the ball, but he played really well...he LEAPED over Henderson, Henderson probably wasnt even given consideration for the #2 spot when Joe went down, he showed speed and hands (on that td catch) but like alot of young guys (Reggie, Evans, Colston, Harper) there learning on the job and you have to take the good (6 catches 92yrds 1td) with the bad (costly fumble) its really gonna make this team better with copper gaining that experience...and other young guys payton trust to put in.
 

Yeti

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Yup it was the fumble that cost us the game in the end. Plus I wasn't too happy about him impersonating Aaron Brooks after that false start penalty he had.
 

SaintsFan83

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He had some critical drops and a offsides penalty. Henderson would have given us a better chance to win.
 

Ryan

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i do agree he's getting a little too much flak here, but i do think devery should have gotten some more consideration, and to me there's no doubt that if horn was able to go yesterday that the saints would have won.
 

daybreaker

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These are fans who still hate Carney for a missed extra point that in the end didnt matter at all... Of course we hate him just for that one fumble.
 

testing

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I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet so let me be the first... Henderson plays "X" receiver (backing up Colston) while Copper plays "Z" receiver (backing up Horn) in Payton's offense. These positions are quite different, in terms of both pass routes and run block assignments, kind of like split end vs. flanker. So, all this wondering and questioning why Copper is the #2 WR ahead of Henderson is misguided, I think. The real question should be why doesn't Colston move to the "Z" spot while Horn is out, thereby allowing Henderson (or Copper) to play the "X". Although, I'm sure Henderson's shoulder injury had something to do with it, not to mention the fact that Colston is a rookie afterall and why mess with karma?

When Copper first joined the team, if you recall, Payton said that he wanted him to start out as "X" and was basically 3rd on the depth chart at that spot (BTW, Jones and Moore backed up Horn at "Z" when the season started). Obviously, with Moore being "demoted" to PS (due to Beerman's return), and with Jones' lack of production, Copper was asked to learn the "Z" as well, and has done a decent job filling in for Horn. However, once Horn comes back, Copper will be back on the bench and assume his #4 WR role. That's because when the Saints go 3-receiver set, Henderson enters as the #3 WR (split end on the line) and Colston, usually, moves to the slot (off the line).

Next year? look for Colston to take over Horn's "Z" spot and Henderson, Copper, etc. to fight it out for "X". Of course, I'd like to see that happen now, with Joe moving to the slot as the #3 WR. If Copper can play the "Z" then surely Colston can too, this year, right? And I would think that Colston-Henderson tandem would be every bit as effective as Horn-Stallworth ever was... imho :)

Just Testing
 

lrayblu

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Yeah I think Copper is going to be alright , He knows he cost us and he will be better.
 

JackT.

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I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet so let me be the first... Henderson plays "X" receiver (backing up Colston) while Copper plays "Z" receiver (backing up Horn) in Payton's offense. These positions are quite different, in terms of both pass routes and run block assignments, kind of like split end vs. flanker. So, all this wondering and questioning why Copper is the #2 WR ahead of Henderson is misguided, I think. The real question should be why doesn't Colston move to the "Z" spot while Horn is out, thereby allowing Henderson (or Copper) to play the "X". Although, I'm sure Henderson's shoulder injury had something to do with it, not to mention the fact that Colston is a rookie afterall and why mess with karma?

When Copper first joined the team, if you recall, Payton said that he wanted him to start out as "X" and was basically 3rd on the depth chart at that spot (BTW, Jones and Moore backed up Horn at "Z" when the season started). Obviously, with Moore being "demoted" to PS (due to Beerman's return), and with Jones' lack of production, Copper was asked to learn the "Z" as well, and has done a decent job filling in for Horn. However, once Horn comes back, Copper will be back on the bench and assume his #4 WR role. That's because when the Saints go 3-receiver set, Henderson enters as the #3 WR (split end on the line) and Colston, usually, moves to the slot (off the line).

Next year? look for Colston to take over Horn's "Z" spot and Henderson, Copper, etc. to fight it out for "X". Of course, I'd like to see that happen now, with Joe moving to the slot as the #3 WR. If Copper can play the "Z" then surely Colston can too, this year, right? And I would think that Colston-Henderson tandem would be every bit as effective as Horn-Stallworth ever was... imho :)

Just Testing
This should solve it.

 

Andrus

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I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet so let me be the first... Henderson plays "X" receiver (backing up Colston) while Copper plays "Z" receiver (backing up Horn) in Payton's offense. These positions are quite different, in terms of both pass routes and run block assignments, kind of like split end vs. flanker. So, all this wondering and questioning why Copper is the #2 WR ahead of Henderson is misguided, I think. The real question should be why doesn't Colston move to the "Z" spot while Horn is out, thereby allowing Henderson (or Copper) to play the "X". Although, I'm sure Henderson's shoulder injury had something to do with it, not to mention the fact that Colston is a rookie afterall and why mess with karma?

When Copper first joined the team, if you recall, Payton said that he wanted him to start out as "X" and was basically 3rd on the depth chart at that spot (BTW, Jones and Moore backed up Horn at "Z" when the season started). Obviously, with Moore being "demoted" to PS (due to Beerman's return), and with Jones' lack of production, Copper was asked to learn the "Z" as well, and has done a decent job filling in for Horn. However, once Horn comes back, Copper will be back on the bench and assume his #4 WR role. That's because when the Saints go 3-receiver set, Henderson enters as the #3 WR (split end on the line) and Colston, usually, moves to the slot (off the line).

Next year? look for Colston to take over Horn's "Z" spot and Henderson, Copper, etc. to fight it out for "X". Of course, I'd like to see that happen now, with Joe moving to the slot as the #3 WR. If Copper can play the "Z" then surely Colston can too, this year, right? And I would think that Colston-Henderson tandem would be every bit as effective as Horn-Stallworth ever was... imho :)

Just Testing
Thanks! And please keep testing, Coach! :)

Welcome to the boards.

Andrus
 

dninc

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Copper will be alright, i hate him right now for the Fumble but since he's in a Saints Jersey i love him to death, it's all in love, he needs a Kick in the butt for screwing us out of that game, but hey can't win em all and we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in a position to let the game be decided on a touchdown when we were way earlier in the game, So We need to really pick apart what players "REALLY" contributed to this loss that had us Count on Copper to catch that one Desperate pass?

Im Happy Joe's in next week and hopefully everbody pulls it together. Find a way to Limit the turnovers and Penalties.. These are costing us Critical games we suppose to win.
 

wnelson

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the drop, the fumble, the penalty.... either way he and mr reggie bush ruined the game for us. the first fumble (if challenged) would have been overturned.
 

Danchrism

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1) false start penalty. camera clearly catches him smiling.
2) after the 2-minute warning, he puts a very catchable pass on the ground.
3) 4 plays later, he DOES make a catch, THEN puts the ball on the ground.

all this on the last drive when we had ZERO chance of recovery. say what you will about billy miller or reggie bush, but we had time to recover from those fumbles. you can't recover from something with 49 seconds left and no timeouts.

WE'RE MAD BECAUSE HE MADE 3 CRAP PLAYS WHEN WE HAD NO TIME TO RECOVER FROM THEM.
 
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I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet so let me be the first... Henderson plays "X" receiver (backing up Colston) while Copper plays "Z" receiver (backing up Horn) in Payton's offense. These positions are quite different, in terms of both pass routes and run block assignments, kind of like split end vs. flanker. So, all this wondering and questioning why Copper is the #2 WR ahead of Henderson is misguided, I think. The real question should be why doesn't Colston move to the "Z" spot while Horn is out, thereby allowing Henderson (or Copper) to play the "X". Although, I'm sure Henderson's shoulder injury had something to do with it, not to mention the fact that Colston is a rookie afterall and why mess with karma?

When Copper first joined the team, if you recall, Payton said that he wanted him to start out as "X" and was basically 3rd on the depth chart at that spot (BTW, Jones and Moore backed up Horn at "Z" when the season started). Obviously, with Moore being "demoted" to PS (due to Beerman's return), and with Jones' lack of production, Copper was asked to learn the "Z" as well, and has done a decent job filling in for Horn. However, once Horn comes back, Copper will be back on the bench and assume his #4 WR role. That's because when the Saints go 3-receiver set, Henderson enters as the #3 WR (split end on the line) and Colston, usually, moves to the slot (off the line).

Next year? look for Colston to take over Horn's "Z" spot and Henderson, Copper, etc. to fight it out for "X". Of course, I'd like to see that happen now, with Joe moving to the slot as the #3 WR. If Copper can play the "Z" then surely Colston can too, this year, right? And I would think that Colston-Henderson tandem would be every bit as effective as Horn-Stallworth ever was... imho :)

Just Testing
Exactly- I'd like to add some more to this:
A players rank on the depth chart has little to do with the starting lineup. Of course the lineup is full of your top players. That said, the lineup and depth chart don't account for "X" and "Z" reciever positions. Payton swaps Marques and Devery out depending on coverage, and has actually "started" Devery over Marques because of this (week 3 vs. Atlanta). It's simply putting the right people in position to make plays.

Devery also has minor issues coming off the line, and it's preferable to put him off the line in the slot, behind the split end, in motion, and so on. The ability to recover your route is crucial to the "Z" position, and there's generally less time to do so @ "Z". That's fine- use his advantages @ "X". The problem comes when trying to shift and keep a legal line- there have been several illegal formation penalties from this. They are getting more cohesive as time goes on, but it's easier to manage with Devery at "X" than "Z". Even easier against Tampa's cover two. Pittsburg, however, did an excellent job of putting a shadow on his routes, and are the primary reason he didn't get the ball. He sold every route he had though. :) That tells me he's starting to click and is being coached pretty good.
 

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