That first round pick we gave the Eagles (1 Viewer)

[DaveXA]

How Penning turns out is largely irrelevant to whether the trade with Philadelphia was a good one when made or should be considered a good one going forward.

In the trade, we received from Philadelphia picks 16 and 16 and a sixth-round pick, and we gave up pick 18, a third-round pick and a sixth-round pick in 2022; a first-round pick in 2023; and a second-round-pick in 2024. There is little difference in value between 18 and 19, and hardly any difference in value between six-round and seventh-round. We essentially gave up for pick 16 a first in 2023 (again, in a draft that is supposed to be quarterback-rich), a second in 2024, and a third in 2022. And let's say there is a difference in value between pick 18 and 19, then we gave up a one in 2023, a two in 2024 and still additional draft compensation less than a three for pick 16. That's serious compensation for a team that needs a future quarterback and still has salary-cap challenges going forward.

Our compensation to Washington to move up from 16 to 11 to pick Olave was very reasonable--for 11, we gave up 16, a late three, and a late four. But these picks do add up. We could have moved up from 18 to 11 to pick Olave by offering Washington 18 and something a tad higher than our late three and a late four. In effect, we gave up a 2023 one and 2024 two plus more for pick 19, which we used to pick Penning. Even if Penning turns out to be a really good player, that is far too much compensation. A Mercedes E class is a really nice car, but it is not value at $90,000.

And a reason we keep trading up and giving away draft picks is that we have every year so few draft picks because of what we have traded away.

Time will tell. I'm not convinced it's as terrible as you're making it out to be, but the value will be in how those picks pan out because what's done is done. I wanted Penning. No regrets at this point.

 

[PHSaint518]

How Penning turns out is largely irrelevant to whether the trade with Philadelphia was a good one when made or should be considered a good one going forward.

In the trade, we received from Philadelphia picks 16 and 16 and a sixth-round pick, and we gave up pick 18, a third-round pick and a sixth-round pick in 2022; a first-round pick in 2023; and a second-round-pick in 2024. There is little difference in value between 18 and 19, and hardly any difference in value between six-round and seventh-round. We essentially gave up for pick 16 a first in 2023 (again, in a draft that is supposed to be quarterback-rich), a second in 2024, and a third in 2022. And let's say there is a difference in value between pick 18 and 19, then we gave up a one in 2023, a two in 2024 and still additional draft compensation less than a three for pick 16. That's serious compensation for a team that needs a future quarterback and still has salary-cap challenges going forward.

Our compensation to Washington to move up from 16 to 11 to pick Olave was very reasonable--for 11, we gave up 16, a late three, and a late four. But these picks do add up. We could have moved up from 18 to 11 to pick Olave by offering Washington 18 and something a tad higher than our late three and a late four. In effect, we gave up a 2023 one and 2024 two plus more for pick 19, which we used to pick Penning. Even if Penning turns out to be a really good player, that is far too much compensation. A Mercedes E class is a really nice car, but it is not value at $90,000.

And a reason we keep trading up and giving away draft picks is that we have every year so few draft picks because of what we have traded away.

This is exactly it. Olave has nothing to do with the Eagles trade, we could have got him anyway. That trade was only ever a good one if Winston turned out to be our franchise QB. Now that he hasn’t we need one, have no 1st and to add insult to injury that pick could well fall into Bryce Young territory. I’m amazed that people are still trying to say it was a good decision. We’re basically relying on a Payton trade to give us a chance at getting the QB of the future.

 

[DaveXA]

This is exactly it. Olave has nothing to do with the Eagles trade, we could have got him anyway. That trade was only ever a good one if Winston turned out to be our franchise QB. Now that he hasn’t we need one, have no 1st and to add insult to injury that pick could well fall into Bryce Young territory. I’m amazed that people are still trying to say it was a good decision. We’re basically relying on a Payton trade to give us a chance at getting the QB of the future.

I wouldn't say it hinges entirely on Winston being the answer. He might still be, but that's looking less likely now. But I'd rather see where we are at the end of the season. And it's not like we won't have any options to trade or make moves in FA next season. I think Loomis will re-evaluate after he's seen a full season with the current group and go from there. No one bats 1.000 and maybe there will be some lessons learned. I'm not gonna hit the panic button now. I'd like to see how things go over the next 2 seasons and if progress hasn't been made by then, let's take a hard look at Loomis.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Dave, I appreciate your serious response to those posts critical of Loomis. I do need to add that there are those who have had serious issues with Loomis's penchant for trading away future picks and 2022 offseason emphasis on continuity before the current losing streak.

I do have two concerns. First, even if we recover and go, say, 9-8, are we simply mired in mediocrity? Second, if we are going to give the current regime a second year, can we allow Loomis to trade away more future picks in an effort to bolster the 2023 squad? Had I been the owner, I would have vetoed a number of major trades that we made, and I would have told Loomis some time ago that he did not have the authority to make any major trades, especially draft picks in rounds one and two, without first consulting with me. Sadly, for multiple reasons, I am not the owner. But I am concerned that in the next offseason, we will trade away more future picks, again overpaying to replace 2023 draft picks already traded away.

 

[Lord Stanley]

Time will tell. I'm not convinced it's as terrible as you're making it out to be, but the value will be in how those picks pan out because what's done is done. I wanted Penning. No regrets at this point.

You’re very forgiving. It’s early but this is going to be a wasted season for Penning. You get 4 years plus option on 1st rounders and we’re getting nothing in return for 25% of the deal.

 

[DaveXA]

Dave, I appreciate your serious response to those posts critical of Loomis. I do need to add that there are those who have had serious issues with Loomis's penchant for trading away future picks and 2022 offseason emphasis on continuity before the current losing streak.

I do have two concerns. First, even if we recover and go, say, 9-8, are we simply mired in mediocrity? Second, if we are going to give the current regime a second year, can we allow Loomis to trade away more future picks in an effort to bolster the 2023 squad? Had I been the owner, I would have vetoed a number of major trades that we made, and I would have told Loomis some time ago that he did not have the authority to make any major trades, especially draft picks in rounds one and two, without first consulting with me. Sadly, for multiple reasons, I am not the owner. But I am concerned that in the next offseason, we will trade away more future picks, again overpaying to replace 2023 draft picks already traded away.

That's not an unreasonable conclusion to make, but I still have a lot of trust in Loomis. I'm one to give a GM a lot of latitude to do what's best for the team. I've never been a fan of owners meddling. If the owner can't trust the GM to make big trades, then the owner has the wrong GM.

 

[Mamba]

This is exactly it. Olave has nothing to do with the Eagles trade, we could have got him anyway. That trade was only ever a good one if Winston turned out to be our franchise QB. Now that he hasn’t we need one, have no 1st and to add insult to injury that pick could well fall into Bryce Young territory. I’m amazed that people are still trying to say it was a good decision. We’re basically relying on a Payton trade to give us a chance at getting the QB of the future.

Who would’ve been QBing this team this season if you were GM of the team????

 

[sammymvpknight]

The wildcard is Penning imo. If he becomes the solid player we hope he'll be, then I think it's worth it. Olave was well worth picking where he was at. I don't know if the trade was worth it from strictly a numbers standpoint, and I've seen some numbers both for/against, depending on what metrics you use.

I think not pulling the trigger when they did would have left us without an answer at WR. The question is whether we should have forgone a season and just gone full rebuild mode, but you know the front office would have been raked over the coals for doing that too.

I was happy with the Olave and Penning picks. I've been disappointed with Winston’s play, but I'm not giving up on this season just yet. The way the defense is playing, we should be in most games late.

The Saints offense looked better…but it is still clearly a lesser offense. I think we’ll be in some games, but this feels like a team in purgatory.

 

[PHSaint518]

Who would’ve been QBing this team this season if you were GM of the team????

Winston. That’s not the issue, there’s no one better we could realistically have got. The difference is I wouldn’t have even considered giving away our 2023 1st because it was always likely Winston wasn’t the answer past this year. Our options at QB are now severely limited unless Payton is traded away for at least a 1st.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Dave, you are absolutely right. Generally, as Jim Finks once said, owners should own, managers should manage, and coaches should coach. Smart general managers and head coaches do consult with and seek the blessing of the owner on major trades and player signings if the signing might be controversial. In my case, my philosophical differences with Loomis are such that were I the owner, he probably would not be my general manager.

However, I also need to acknowledge that In many ways with a head coach like Sean Payton, who has a tremendous ego and much talent in recognizing football talent, Loomis was almost an ideal general manager because Loomis seemed willing to defer to Payton with talent decisions, did not seek the limelight, and kept the trains running on time. (I also think there were times Loomis should have reined in Payton, but that's a discussion for another time.)

 

[jasonsw]

He wasn't used with two 1st round pick... We moved up our 2023 1st pick to 2022 and swap picks around. We gave a 2nd and 2 3rds for him.

Not a Davenport situation

A star WR is most definitely worth that. Especially considering the fact he appears to be the best one on the team already.

 

[Mamba]

Our options at QB are now severely limited unless Payton is traded away for at least a 1st.

…which is a near certainty at this point, IMO.

 

[SaintStephen1]

The wildcard is Penning imo. If he becomes the solid player we hope he'll be, then I think it's worth it. Olave was well worth picking where he was at. I don't know if the trade was worth it from strictly a numbers standpoint, and I've seen some numbers both for/against, depending on what metrics you use.

I think not pulling the trigger when they did would have left us without an answer at WR. The question is whether we should have forgone a season and just gone full rebuild mode, but you know the front office would have been raked over the coals for doing that too.

I was happy with the Olave and Penning picks. I've been disappointed with Winston’s play, but I'm not giving up on this season just yet. The way the defense is playing, we should be in most games late.

And Allen’s defense will gag most games late.

 

[DaveXA]

Our options at QB are now severely limited unless Payton is traded away for at least a 1st.

Maybe that was the plan all along? Could be a genius move, lol.

 

[DaveXA]

And Allen’s defense will gag most games late.

Maybe, we'll see.