Opinion The chance to get a top tier HC has come and gone (13 Viewers)

[3ParStillDriver]

Fair enough there. Loomis is an excuse factory, with some Yogi Berra sensibility.

7 wins with the way this roster is going to look next year is going to be a huge win for the franchise. Whoever the HC is, he should be in the running for coach of the year if he can win 7.

2025 should look like the Lions 3-13 in 2021. If we win 7, we made the right hire.

I gotta disagree. There are two things I look for.

Pre-game planning : How the team starts the game with counters to their weapons defensively and offensively.
Game time adjustments : Something isn't working, you adjust. Opposing coach adjusts. What then? Is he always playing cat and mouse, or is he getting ahead of adjustments. We constantly watched Payton get ahead on adjustments. We also constantly have watched the Lions, Vikings, Rams, Chiefs, Ravens and Bills do the same which is a large part of why they're contenders. Are they ahead every game? No. But the coach who is, is the most likely team to win and they do it very often.

We could go 2-15 because of injuries or a plethora of other reasons. As long as the head coach can plan effectively and adjust effectively consistently (which would highly likely end up with far more then two wins), we're headed somewhere good.

On the flip side of that, we could win 10 games first season because of a lackluster schedule and our coach is struggling to not get out coached. That tells me, regardless of the 10 wins and a playoff birth, we're headed down hill.

 

[44slayer]

I gotta disagree. There are two things I look for.

Pre-game planning : How the team starts the game with counters to their weapons defensively and offensively.
Game time adjustments : Something isn't working, you adjust. Opposing coach adjusts. What then? Is he always playing cat and mouse, or is he getting ahead of adjustments. We constantly watched Payton get ahead on adjustments. We also constantly have watched the Lions, Vikings, Rams, Chiefs, Ravens and Bills do the same which is a large part of why they're contenders. Are they ahead every game? No. But the coach who is, is the most likely team to win and they do it very often.

We could go 2-15 because of injuries or a plethora of other reasons. As long as the head coach can plan effectively and adjust effectively consistently (which would highly likely end up with far more then two wins), we're headed somewhere good.

On the flip side of that, we could win 10 games first season because of a lackluster schedule and our coach is struggling to not get out coached. That tells me, regardless of the 10 wins and a playoff birth, we're headed down hill.

You dont even know what youre disagreeing with at this point other than you just want to disagree with everyone about everything.

 

[Elvis]

I loathe the sunshine pumpers as you do the negative Nancies.

How long have you been a fan? The team has been so much worse and it’s all gravy to me since I got to see us win it all. All lagniappe now. I’d be lumped into the negative category I’m sure, I see it as realist tho.

The team may suck but my life is GOOD and I’m blessed and beyond thankful lol. So I’m not negative about everything. (I know you didn’t direct it at me)

It’s all also just entertainment to me, I keep it in that box.

I’ve loved em for 46 years and I’ll love em till I die even if they never win another game. Also beyond thankful for Sean and Drew and those 15 or so years.

Yeah, I can't put aside what I see with my own eyes. It's not negativity, it's reality. And the people that post the reality are seen as negative because the current state of the team isn't good and has little chance of being good soon without a fairly drastic change in course. Those of us that are seen in that light by the sunshine pumpers are still here through the bad times. We're not bandwagoners. We just want to see some changes for the better. Or even the worse if that's how it turns out. But at least try to do something rather than pump more sunshine.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

You have Vrabel ranked higher than McCarthy? Based on what lol.

McCarthy just became available. As I’ve said in another post on this thread I do not.

Mike has an almost identical record to Sean. That means something to me. I like em both.

 

[Hedon James]

The Jags GM has been fired, so that lack of interest may not exist anymore.

I saw that, and find it interesting because it was only a week-10 days ago that the owner was standing behind his GM. What changed in 7-10 days? I can only speculate that HC candidates were rebuffing the Jags opportunity because of the GM? At some point, when enough candidates turn down, or walk away from the opportunity, you have to consider that the candidates aren't the problem. Kudos to the owner for taking steps to identify and attempt to rectify the issue. Time will tell if it's the right solution, but based on nothing but results during his tenure, I don't think the Jags are losing anything by moving on from Baalke.

But that makes me wonder....do the Saints have the same problem? Mike Vrabel and Ben Johnson weren't even interested in TALKING to the Saints. We can speculate that Vrabel to Pats was his dream scenario and was always going to happen, but what happened with Ben Johnson? He was willing to consider the Raiders! The Raiders, for chrissakes! Since when are the Raiders a more preferable destination than the Saints, for the SAME candidate? And there's another candidate out there who I think would be an excellent HC....has done a LOT with very little, and continues to sustain it....Liam Coen of the Bucs. Why aren't we at least TALKING to this guy? I understand he turned down the opportunity to be DAs OC. I can maybe understand that....why hitch your wagon to a HC that you don't think will have a very long tenure. But why turn down the opportunity (if it was even offered....if it wasn't, shame on the Saints) to interview for the HEAD COACH position? Coen was rumored to be the front-runner for the Jags, but wanted a different GM (allegedly), and turned down the Jags to sign an extension as OC with the Bucs. Is this demonstrative of Coen's view of the Saints situation? I don't know, but I think it can't be ignored. Do the Saints have a GM problem when it comes to attracting the "HOT" candidates, whether for OC, DC, or HC. (notice I didn't say "top"....that's debatable....but I think we'd mostly agree that the "hot" candidates don't even want to talk to us). That FLOORS me, and I'm struggling for an explanation other than a perceived GM problem?

Regardless of whether the Saints GM is an impediment, or a solution, I've been saying I don't have a strong preference (yet) for any specific coach. I've just been saying in a broad and generic fashion that I want the criteria for a HC to be "we believe this guy is going to win a SB someday, and we want it to be here"; as opposed to "we think this guy can fix this mess and get us back to the playoffs." That's how I define the "swing for the bleacher seats" hire. And with that clarification, I have to admit that neither Vrabel, Johnson, Coen, and now Glenn...do not fit the criteria. How can the Saints view these guys as potential SB winners, when the coaches themselves don't see themselves winning a SB here. You gotta believe you can do something before you can show the world that you CAN, and none of those guys believe they can do it....at least not in NO. So it's "next" candidate up....

In the meantime, I think it's an honest question to be asked. Do the Saints have a perceived GM problem, like the Jags did? If we do, I still hold out hope that we land that future SB winner, like we landed CSP. Not each other's 1st choices(?), but still wildy successful in spite of that. I'll take that!

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Totally agree, and if you don’t, go to the jets nation forum and get their vibe. 90% say that about AG, that they would’ve been conflicted if he was applying for the Dc job much less for head coach. They’re at the point, “at least he wants to come here, I guess let’s hire him”. AG wisely leaked that blurb about wanting to be a jet. Otherwise he might not have had a market. Big Mike is a Sean Payton duplicate except physically. But he’s actually better, he won more conference championship game and has a higher win %. We’ll be totally lucky if Mike takes the job.

Yeah the board I’m a member of is not too happy with the Glenn hiring. Lol we shall see how it works out.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I saw that, and find it interesting because it was only a week-10 days ago that the owner was standing behind his GM. What changed in 7-10 days? I can only speculate that HC candidates were rebuffing the Jags opportunity because of the GM? At some point, when enough candidates turn down, or walk away from the opportunity, you have to consider that the candidates aren't the problem. Kudos to the owner for taking steps to identify and attempt to rectify the issue. Time will tell if it's the right solution, but based on nothing but results during his tenure, I don't think the Jags are losing anything by moving on from Baalke.

But that makes me wonder....do the Saints have the same problem? Mike Vrabel and Ben Johnson weren't even interested in TALKING to the Saints. We can speculate that Vrabel to Pats was his dream scenario and was always going to happen, but what happened with Ben Johnson? He was willing to consider the Raiders! The Raiders, for chrissakes! Since when are the Raiders a more preferable destination than the Saints, for the SAME candidate? And there's another candidate out there who I think would be an excellent HC....has done a LOT with very little, and continues to sustain it....Liam Coen of the Bucs. Why aren't we at least TALKING to this guy? I understand he turned down the opportunity to be DAs OC. I can maybe understand that....why hitch your wagon to a HC that you don't think will have a very long tenure. But why turn down the opportunity (if it was even offered....if it wasn't, shame on the Saints) to interview for the HEAD COACH position? Coen was rumored to be the front-runner for the Jags, but wanted a different GM (allegedly), and turned down the Jags to sign an extension as OC with the Bucs. Is this demonstrative of Coen's view of the Saints situation? I don't know, but I think it can't be ignored. Do the Saints have a GM problem when it comes to attracting the "HOT" candidates, whether for OC, DC, or HC. (notice I didn't say "top"....that's debatable....but I think we'd mostly agree that the "hot" candidates don't even want to talk to us). That FLOORS me, and I'm struggling for an explanation other than a perceived GM problem?

Regardless of whether the Saints GM is an impediment, or a solution, I've been saying I don't have a strong preference (yet) for any specific coach. I've just been saying in a broad and generic fashion that I want the criteria for a HC to be "we believe this guy is going to win a SB someday, and we want it to be here"; as opposed to "we think this guy can fix this mess and get us back to the playoffs." That's how I define the "swing for the bleacher seats" hire. And with that clarification, I have to admit that neither Vrabel, Johnson, Coen, and now Glenn...do not fit the criteria. How can the Saints view these guys as potential SB winners, when the coaches themselves don't see themselves winning a SB here. You gotta believe you can do something before you can show the world that you CAN, and none of those guys believe they can do it....at least not in NO. So it's "next" candidate up....

In the meantime, I think it's an honest question to be asked. Do the Saints have a perceived GM problem, like the Jags did? If we do, I still hold out hope that we land that future SB winner, like we landed CSP. Not each other's 1st choices(?), but still wildy successful in spite of that. I'll take that!

I’d speculate (and it’s common sense) that a lot of potential coaches don’t like the cap situation and the way it’s managed. Meaning they don’t think it’s going to change. At least anytime soon and not with ML running the show.

We are also (right now) pretty devoid of young talent.

Agreed with your last, we’d all take that haha.

 

[St. Geezy]

The Jags GM has been fired, so that lack of interest may not exist anymore.

Where did the McCarthy not liking the Jags job because of the GM thing originate from? Just curious because it seems to be getting repeated and I very well may have missed something.

For all we know, he has no interest in any other jobs because he knows he already has one.

 

[Rexman100]

Yeah the board I’m a member of is not too happy with the Glenn hiring. Lol we shall see how it works out.

Jets fans are hilarious, on Monday they had a "Fire Aaron Glenn" thread going. Also a "Fire Newmark" one as well. And finally, "Does AG get a contract renewal" all before any of these guys are hired. Jetsfans are next level

 

[Nonreg]

Because the jets have been so successful picking HC lately…


As much as a fan favorite as Glenn was, he is not a “top candidate”

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Jets fans are hilarious, on Monday they had a "Fire Aaron Glenn" thread going. Also a "Fire Newmark" one as well. And finally, "Does AG get a contract renewal" all before any of these guys are hired. Jetsfans are next level

I believe and always have that all fan bases have their lunatics. Their fanatics lol. Every one of em. They are indeed funny tho.

I used to be a fanatic. Then I started thinking, as my real world problems were happening….I’m literally obsessing over grown men who are multimillionaires for throwing running catching and tackling another grown man millionaire with that ball they’re throwing running and catching. And it’s just business for 99.9% of them, which is fine, as it should be. Absolute insanity from the fanatic side tho haha.

That’s why it’s all just fun and entertainment to me now. I lost my fanatic badge after the Super Bowl win, and the league flushed it down the toilet in the 19 NFCCG.

 

[sfidc3]

McCarthy is already a divisive figure to the fanbase.

I mean, all of the candidates are, it's just MM is not an unknown.....

Given the choice, I'm taking MM over Vrabel or AG, his track record is much longer and better than Vrabel, and AG is a total unknown but will likely be a defensive minded HC.....

The only guy ahead of MM for me is Brady, because I think it's worth the risk to see if he is our next offensive genius HC.....and the age thing, he would likely be around much longer if successful....

 

[Clintonrebel]

If we got a good coach in 2006, we can certainly get a good coach now.

 

[MSUSousaphone]

No coach was going to save a season with these injuries.

It's boring to talk about on a forum but it doesn't matter who the head coach is until the injury issues are addressed. That's Pelicans and Saints.

 

[SystemShock]

Wow, I didn’t know that!

But he’s a rare exception because of a major injury and is a literally a Unicorn.

Name another elite QB that left his original team after a few years and went on to win a Super Bowl? Only veterans with a few seasons left.

I don’t know why more teams don’t follow in Green Bay’s QB path… They had three QBs since 1992 and drafted them all. Is that good?

The Packers did not draft Favre.