the VG board football thread (4 Viewers)

[ole dirt mcgirt]

Bushrod has to go.

 

[antipop]

Bushrod has to go.

and he can take Reggie Bush with him

 

[ole dirt mcgirt]

and he can take Reggie Bush with him

Yea I figure Reggie is done. I like the guy but having a good game every 7 games just doesn't cut it.

 

[antipop]

i mean, he seems like a nice guy and all of that nonsense

but we really just don't need him....the whole "decoy" thing is so overblown....we won games while he was on the bench

he is due 11 million next year....he'll never see that anywhere

 

[ole dirt mcgirt]

i mean, he seems like a nice guy and all of that nonsense

but we really just don't need him....the whole "decoy" thing is so overblown....we won games while he was on the bench

he is due 11 million next year....he'll never see that anywhere

I agree I mean when was the last time he rushed for 100 yards or even had 100 yards recieving? As much as I don't like to admit it sometimes you gotta call a bust a bust. I've been hoping for the last 4 years that he would one day "get it" and put together some good games but so far it's only every few weeks that he does something.

 

[The Mongoose]

I think Bushrod has a hurt ankle. He looks totally gimpy out there. I remember seeing it happen a couple games ago, watching him limp off the field.

So while the o-line has been bad all year, having a gimpy Bushrod (who can barely hang on when he's healthy) doesn't help.

I don't know what's wrong with Stinch. He looks slower. Maybe age?

Jahri got paid. There's less intensity with him.

Goodwin just let Babineaux through last night on that pick six. Just a lack of effort.

Haven't noticed Nicks messing up much.

Those guys just all seem fatter, slower, and lazier this year. Maybe they can gear it up for a playoff run or something.

I think a big factor is that our scheme doesn't help them as much this year. The playaction pass with a pulling guard doesn't fool as many people this year, since we did it all last year. It's our big-play look. And teams are looking for it.

As for Reggie, I dunno. I'm rooting for the dude. Last night seemed like a perfect time to use him to counter the blitz. When people blitz us, it should be a simple matter of dumping it to Reggie in stride behind the blitz and making them pay for sending rushers. We did it once last night for a 4 yard gain, easy peasy.

I don't know why we didn't do it more. He's simply not featured in the game plan. Which might be a good thing, I dunno. Can't figure it out. The dude should be better than what he is.

 

[St. Widge]

I think Bushrod has a hurt ankle. He looks totally gimpy out there. I remember seeing it happen a couple games ago, watching him limp off the field.

So while the o-line has been bad all year, having a gimpy Bushrod (who can barely hang on when he's healthy) doesn't help.

I don't know what's wrong with Stinch. He looks slower. Maybe age?

Jahri got paid. There's less intensity with him.

Goodwin just let Babineaux through last night on that pick six. Just a lack of effort.

Haven't noticed Nicks messing up much.

Those guys just all seem fatter, slower, and lazier this year. Maybe they can gear it up for a playoff run or something.

I think a big factor is that our scheme doesn't help them as much this year. The playaction pass with a pulling guard doesn't fool as many people this year, since we did it all last year. It's our big-play look. And teams are looking for it.

As for Reggie, I dunno. I'm rooting for the dude. Last night seemed like a perfect time to use him to counter the blitz. When people blitz us, it should be a simple matter of dumping it to Reggie in stride behind the blitz and making them pay for sending rushers. We did it once last night for a 4 yard gain, easy peasy.

I don't know why we didn't do it more. He's simply not featured in the game plan. Which might be a good thing, I dunno. Can't figure it out. The dude should be better than what he is.

Part of it is that they had to keep Bush in the backfield to pick up the blitz. The o-line was so pourous that they couldn't afford to leave Brees without a back to protect him unless they really spead out the formation and Bush is excellent at blitz pickups.

That being said, Bush got at least two nice passes with space to work. On one, he ran out of bounds when it looked like he could have gotten a few more yards by turning up field. On the other one, at aroudn the 10, he would have scored if he just turned up field, but instead, he tried to run parallel to the line so he could cut the corner and then either turn up near the boundray or go out of bounds. But, instead of being able to run all the way accross the field Thomas DeCou caught him from behind. I like Reggie and he does a good job on blitz pickups and is good at getting the 4 or five yard pass that gets you to 3rd and 5 instead of 3rd and 10, but he just isn't making any plays this year and he hasn't made enough in the past. I think he has tremendous talent, but he just doesn have the instincts to make the proper cuts to make big plays.

 

[The Mongoose]

I remember both plays you're talking about. The one where he ran out of bounds, meh, maybe.

But on the one where Decoud tripped him up, I don't think you can fault Reggie. He was trying to score, and to score he had to get to the outside where blockers were. Decoud made a great play.

Plus, I think when teams blitz, we are missing an opportunity. Yeah, you can keep Reggie in to protect and try to hit something downfield, as we often do. Or, you can let the rush come and get it to Reggie in the void they leave, which we also do, but just not as much.

I don't know why we don't do option 2 much anymore. It's worked in the past. Rush comes hard, ball goes to Reggie in the flats in stride. Hell, we did it last night for a 4 yard gain. An easy 4 yard gain. No team is going to continue to give you 4 yards every play.

Whatever, this is a pointless argument. It appears that Reggie's unique skill set is being purposely ignored by Payton. This might be a good thing. We've lost games in the past by trying to feature Reggie; it takes away from running a normal offense, sometimes hurts Drew's game, and limits our other weaponry.

It's unfortunate that Reggie just can't "fit in" with whatever we're doing and be dominant. But he can't. He's a winner, he can pick up blitzes, and I like having him on the team. He's not worth 11 million though.

It's a shame, because after the playoffs last year, he looked as though he had turned a corner. This preseason and early this year, he appeared to be running decisively and north-south. The injury in the 49er game set him back, I think.

 

[St. Widge]

I remember both plays you're talking about. The one where he ran out of bounds, meh, maybe.

But on the one where Decoud tripped him up, I don't think you can fault Reggie. He was trying to score, and to score he had to get to the outside where blockers were. Decoud made a great play.

Plus, I think when teams blitz, we are missing an opportunity. Yeah, you can keep Reggie in to protect and try to hit something downfield, as we often do. Or, you can let the rush come and get it to Reggie in the void they leave, which we also do, but just not as much.

I don't know why we don't do option 2 much anymore. It's worked in the past. Rush comes hard, ball goes to Reggie in the flats in stride. Hell, we did it last night for a 4 yard gain. An easy 4 yard gain. No team is going to continue to give you 4 yards every play.

Whatever, this is a pointless argument. It appears that Reggie's unique skill set is being purposely ignored by Payton. This might be a good thing. We've lost games in the past by trying to feature Reggie; it takes away from running a normal offense, sometimes hurts Drew's game, and limits our other weaponry.

It's unfortunate that Reggie just can't "fit in" with whatever we're doing and be dominant. But he can't. He's a winner, he can pick up blitzes, and I like having him on the team. He's not worth 11 million though.

It's a shame, because after the playoffs last year, he looked as though he had turned a corner. This preseason and early this year, he appeared to be running decisively and north-south. The injury in the 49er game set him back, I think.

Yeah, I thought he had turned the corner too, but he just hasn't done it this year. The problem with all those 4 yard passes is that you have to be perfect for 15 or so plays in order to score and that's tough to do against any NFL defense. And, when we try to do that, we get bogged down. I think teams need to get those 15 to 20 yard passes and the longer passes so that they can afford to make the occasional mistake and still keep the drive alive. And, if Reggie ever broke one of those short passes you could keep doing it and get the big play that way, but outside of the Chicago NFC Championship game, he hasn't done that. In fact, the most effective RB as far as the big play in the passing game is Pierre Thomas who has numerous 20+ yard plays and TDs off of screen passes and little dump passes. For whatever reason, Thomas has the knack to find the proper cut where as Bush always seems to cut into the defense. And that DeCoud tackle was a perfect example. It looked to me like if he cut it up he could have scored (maybe buzd can answer that since he was there), but instead he took it outside where he got nothing extra. Had he cut it up at a minimum it would have been first and goal around the five. I mean, you want Bush in the open field, but he just seems to do nothign with it and when you have guys like Graham, Pierre thomas, Meachem, Moore and Henderson who do make plays with the ball in their hands, it's hard to keep feeding it to Bush hoping he finally makes that big play.

 

[kcirdor]

The threat of running the ball if anyone actually believes we will attempt to run the ball helps the tackles not have to deal with an all out pass rush by the DEs and trying to figure out which blitzer is really blitzing on 3 of every 4 downs.(minus special teams downs)

Instead, I have a oline that is trying to figure out if they need have the outside man, and let the inside man go to the guard or back. Or if I need to take the end and let the outside blitzer go to the back.

All I need is 20 to preferrably 25 carries for 3 yards a carry PRIOR to trying to milk the clock in the fourth. Set up my Play-action and give my tackles a break on 1st and 10 or second and medium to short. Most of those carries would probably be for 1 or 2 yards, but that one or two times we got 15 yards get me to a 3 or 4 yard per carry average. And the belief that they maybe just maybe they miiiight run it, keeps the DE's from going all out every play. Reduces the mistakes Drew makes. Opens up the deep play. reduces the "false start" head start needed to block the pass rushing DEs. If we want to blame the Tackles for the pass rush, we need to examine the plays being run that do not give our tackles any advantages when going up against one of the leagues best pass rushers.

running isn't effective

yes it is. effectivness can be measured beyond yards. 21 interceptions. minus the few that were tips, and the few were just terrible bombs. Sacks./Fumbles. Hurries. Percentage of times the DE's all out pass rush rather than play their techniques on non-3rd and longs.

They showed where drew was 12/15 when pressured...

And then he followed that up with 2 bone headed #2 or #4 style under handed passes. On the lateral he was bailed out by PT and the other was 6 points ATL.

I know Drew likes to audible. So it isn't all on Sean's play calling. Drew also sets the protection almost every down so you can't blame the oline for 100 percent of the Pressure.

"Kill kill" to the defense probably means PASS 90% of the time.

Drew is still the best I've seen when it comes to avoiding the rush and staying in the pocket. Just take the sack instead of throwing underhanded, please. He may be our lord and savior but that doesn't excuse him.

 

[St. Widge]

The threat of running the ball if anyone actually believes we will attempt to run the ball helps the tackles not have to deal with an all out pass rush by the DEs and trying to figure out which blitzer is really blitzing on 3 of every 4 downs.(minus special teams downs)

Instead, I have a oline that is trying to figure out if they need have the outside man, and let the inside man go to the guard or back. Or if I need to take the end and let the outside blitzer go to the back.

All I need is 20 to preferrably 25 carries for 3 yards a carry PRIOR to trying to milk the clock in the fourth. Set up my Play-action and give my tackles a break on 1st and 10 or second and medium to short. Most of those carries would probably be for 1 or 2 yards, but that one or two times we got 15 yards get me to a 3 or 4 yard per carry average. And the belief that they maybe just maybe they miiiight run it, keeps the DE's from going all out every play. Reduces the mistakes Drew makes. Opens up the deep play. reduces the "false start" head start needed to block the pass rushing DEs. If we want to blame the Tackles for the pass rush, we need to examine the plays being run that do not give our tackles any advantages when going up against one of the leagues best pass rushers.


yes it is. effectivness can be measured beyond yards. 21 interceptions. minus the few that were tips, and the few were just terrible bombs. Sacks./Fumbles. Hurries. Percentage of times the DE's all out pass rush rather than play their techniques on non-3rd and longs.



And then he followed that up with 2 bone headed #2 or #4 style under handed passes. On the lateral he was bailed out by PT and the other was 6 points ATL.

I know Drew likes to audible. So it isn't all on Sean's play calling. Drew also sets the protection almost every down so you can't blame the oline for 100 percent of the Pressure.

"Kill kill" to the defense probably means PASS 90% of the time.

Drew is still the best I've seen when it comes to avoiding the rush and staying in the pocket. Just take the sack instead of throwing underhanded, please. He may be our lord and savior but that doesn't excuse him.

Here is the thing. Payton and Drew have run the offense like this since they have been here. They do not set up the pass with the run and they never will. Their plan going into every game is to throw the ball to get a lead and then run the ball to burn out the clock at the end of the game. They set up the run with the pass and it makes sense when you have one of the best QB's in the leage behind center. Payton is the Gregg Williams of offense. He's agressive and wants to go up tempo striking as fast and hard as he can to wear a defense down so he can run the ball to close out the game.

That's essentially what they did last night, what they did all of last year and what they have done in most of the games they have won under Payton and they have won a lot. Things didn't suddenly change last night or in the games where the o-line did not play well. Beyond that, the short passing game and screens, which we use a lot, works just as well to stop teams from blitzing or dropping back into deep coverage as 20 to 25 runs per game. The short passing game is our consistent running game and those 3 and 4 yard passes to the backs, TEs and WRs are how we stay out of third and long.

In short, "run the ball" more is not the answer. Block better and pick up the blitzes is the answer. That's especially true last night when the Falcons didn't really blitz much in the second half and were getting to Brees with a 3 or 4 man rush. Running the ball more isn't going to help you stop a 3 or 4 man rush.

 

[kcirdor]

Falcons blitzed 40 times last night. Im sure the pressure had more to do with that fact then the running game.

But I'd still like to believe we MIGHT run the ball on 1st down or when Drew audibles.

And we did not do that last year. Last year we stayed more balanced than any other time under Payton/Drew prior to 'clock killing time'. Play actions were key to most of our long plays. This year not so much.

 

[kcirdor]

And we did not do that last year. Last year we stayed more balanced than any other time under Payton/Drew prior to 'clock killing time'. Play actions were key to most of our long plays. This year not so much.

In 2009 including playoffs we had 262 1st & 10s in the first half. We ran the ball 105 times.

http://www.armchairanalysis.com/nfl-play-by-play-data.html

first half counts on Downs 1 through 3.

CountOfPLAY ID DEF TYPE
3 ARI NOPL
20 ARI PASS
16 ARI RUSH
3 ATL NOPL
19 ATL PASS
16 ATL RUSH
3 ATL NOPL
21 ATL PASS
8 ATL RUSH
3 BUF NOPL
18 BUF PASS
16 BUF RUSH
3 CAR NOPL
24 CAR PASS
9 CAR RUSH
1 CAR NOPL
11 CAR PASS
15 CAR RUSH
3 DAL NOPL
21 DAL PASS
9 DAL RUSH
1 DET FGXP
3 DET NOPL
22 DET PASS
15 DET RUSH
1 IND NOPL
23 IND PASS
11 IND RUSH
5 MIA NOPL
25 MIA PASS
8 MIA RUSH
2 MIN NOPL
16 MIN PASS
9 MIN RUSH
13 NE PASS
11 NE RUSH
3 NYG NOPL
20 NYG PASS
17 NYG RUSH
2 NYJ NOPL
18 NYJ PASS
11 NYJ RUSH
1 PHI NOPL
23 PHI PASS
11 PHI RUSH
14 STL PASS
12 STL RUSH
23 TB PASS
9 TB RUSH
14 TB PASS
13 TB RUSH
3 WAS NOPL
24 WAS PASS
10 WAS RUSH


1st Half First and Second Downs
CountOfPLAY ID DEF TYPE
3 ARI NOPL
16 ARI PASS
14 ARI RUSH
3 ATL NOPL
17 ATL PASS
14 ATL RUSH
2 ATL NOPL
16 ATL PASS
7 ATL RUSH
2 BUF NOPL
12 BUF PASS
14 BUF RUSH
2 CAR NOPL
18 CAR PASS
8 CAR RUSH
1 CAR NOPL
7 CAR PASS
13 CAR RUSH
3 DAL NOPL
17 DAL PASS
9 DAL RUSH
2 DET NOPL
16 DET PASS
14 DET RUSH
1 IND NOPL
16 IND PASS
10 IND RUSH
4 MIA NOPL
16 MIA PASS
8 MIA RUSH
2 MIN NOPL
13 MIN PASS
7 MIN RUSH
12 NE PASS
8 NE RUSH
3 NYG NOPL
18 NYG PASS
13 NYG RUSH
1 NYJ NOPL
13 NYJ PASS
10 NYJ RUSH
1 PHI NOPL
17 PHI PASS
11 PHI RUSH
8 STL PASS
12 STL RUSH
18 TB PASS
8 TB RUSH
12 TB PASS
12 TB RUSH
3 WAS NOPL
20 WAS PASS
7 WAS RUSH

Full games 1st through 3rd down.
CountOfPLAY ID DEF TYPE GAME ID
1 DET FGXP 2396
6 DET NOPL 2396
34 DET PASS 2396
35 DET RUSH 2396
2 PHI NOPL 2410
36 PHI PASS 2410
28 PHI RUSH 2410
5 BUF NOPL 2430
30 BUF PASS 2430
37 BUF RUSH 2430
31 NYJ RUSH 2445
31 NYJ PASS 2445
5 NYJ NOPL 2445
7 NYG NOPL 2468
37 NYG RUSH 2468
31 NYG PASS 2468
27 MIA RUSH 2488
43 MIA PASS 2488
5 MIA NOPL 2488
4 ATL NOPL 2503
35 ATL PASS 2503
35 ATL RUSH 2503
23 CAR RUSH 2511
36 CAR PASS 2511
5 CAR NOPL 2511
28 STL RUSH 2523
2 STL NOPL 2523
27 STL PASS 2523
29 TB PASS 2541
34 TB RUSH 2541
25 NE RUSH 2563
24 NE PASS 2563
1 NE NOPL 2563
2 WAS FGXP 2574
4 WAS NOPL 2574
50 WAS PASS 2574
23 WAS RUSH 2574
26 ATL RUSH 2581
40 ATL PASS 2581
6 ATL NOPL 2581
13 DAL RUSH 2597
4 DAL NOPL 2597
48 DAL PASS 2597
23 TB RUSH 2619
1 TB FGXP 2619
2 TB NOPL 2619
38 TB PASS 2619
1 CAR NOPL 2629
29 CAR PASS 2629
31 CAR RUSH 2629
33 ARI RUSH 2648
3 ARI NOPL 2648
32 ARI PASS 2648
1 MIN AS 2653
5 MIN NOPL 2653
32 MIN PASS 2653
21 MIN RUSH 2653
1 IND NOPL 2654
40 IND PASS 2654
17 IND RUSH 2654

Last year we gave the tackles support after what Dallas's pass rush did to us. We gave the tackles very little support yesterday.

Running does set up passing and visa versa.

Anyway as long as we keep finding ways to win, like our 5th ranked defense yesterday, sure go ahead be imbalanced. Just give the tackles some support when Drew Brees is dancing in the pocket all game long.

I won't complain if we try to give the impression of a balanced offense in the first half before turning on the come back juice in the second half. That impression of balance will help Drew later in the game.

 

[Twenty]

inrats

 

[uproar90]

I don't understand this team...

You can see the flashes of brilliance, but they just don't put it together.

It's like they haven't played together yet this year.